Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
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Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
15. Rediscovering Connection with Work: for mothers transitioning back to the workplace with PR Mums founder Emma Padden
As a parent juggling a career and family life, I was delighted to reconnect with my former colleague Emma Padden, the founder of PR Mums.
Emma and I swap PR agency stories, some so absurd they defy belief, underscoring the urgency for a shift towards valuing mental health and sustainable work practices. Listen as we craft the future of work through laughter and shared experiences.
Wrapping up, we unpack the enigma of nurturing company culture in a world where home offices are the new boardrooms.
Our heartfelt conversation reveals the trials and triumphs of women returning to public relations post-maternity leave. PR Mums, stands as a beacon for empowerment, offering recruitment, training, psychological support, and policy development that's reshaping the professional landscape for women.
So, plug in your earbuds and join us for a candid exploration of these pressing topics, with insights that promise to resonate with anyone striving to balance the scales of work and home life.
About PR Mums
PR Mums is business founded to support women, mums and parents in the PR & Comms industry. As a female dominated industry PR & Comms has a significant gender pay gap. Why? There are many reasons, but we know not enough women aren’t staying in the industry to reach senior and leadership positions, with childcare being a significant contributor. Our purpose is to help women in the workplace, and drive change that better supports women being at work and achieving their goals.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/pr-mums/
https://www.pr-mums.com/
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I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.
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Love & sparkles,
✨Shelley
About Your Host
Hi, I'm Shelley Doyle, a Social Wealth Strategist and Connection Coach. I empower remote and nomadic founders and leaders who crave deeper connections to activate their social wealth, so they can feel trusted, supported, and truly connected—both online and offline—no matter where they are.
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Hello, this is Rediscovering Connection, and I'm here today with Emma Padden. Emma Padden and I used to be colleagues many, many years ago in my PR life in London, and Emma has now created this beautiful business called PR Mums, which I'll let her tell you all about, and I'm really excited to explore with Emma. It's been a journey to get to where she is today and really to explore how this idea came to fruition, what communities or individuals have really helped her to bring this to life, and how everything has unfolded since she came up with the concept and the people that have come forward in this new iteration of your life. Hi Emma, welcome. Hi Shelley, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:So when PR Mums first came to be, I'm sure there was a little bit of work that went on behind the scenes, so obviously, as you've already said, we used to work together a long time ago in the PR industry and in the UK, but I think pretty much most of the PR industry globally is predominantly women it's about. In the UK it's about 67% female dominated. But yet when you get to senior levels that flips completely and there's quite a staggering gender pay gap as well. It's about 17, 17%, it can go down to 12.8% depending on which report you're reading, but let's just call it 15,. It's somewhere in the middle. So for a female dominated industry that's pretty bad and we wanted to redress the balance.
Speaker 2:And there are numerous reasons those things happen. The obvious one is because there aren't enough women in senior and needy positions and that's where the kind of like the biggest salaries are. But another reason for that is childcare as well, and broadly, women in our industry leave from about the age of 35, you see a decline and there are various reasons. It can be anything from fertility journey so we're beginning at the beginning of the fertility journey so all the way through to retirement, so anything within that lifecycle that could impact a woman and her career. So that could be going through trying for a baby, having IVF, baby loss, adoption, surrogacy, childcare, menopause, perimenopause.
Speaker 2:Another big one as well is parental care. So being the person statistically, if you're the eldest daughter in a family, you're more likely to look after your parents as they get old and more frail and then hitting retirement. And when you get to the other end and you quit, hit retirement, then you have a pension gap as well because you haven't been earning the same level as money as a man, so you're going to have less money when it comes to later life and also, as a woman, you're more likely to live longer than a guy as well. So that's where the motivations came from. How can we start with this?
Speaker 2:And child biggest impact on a career for a woman? That's where we kind of became and that's where PR moms came from. So trying to get women back into the workplace and, if they have left, getting them back in. It doesn't make whether they've taken three years out or six months out or whatever. It may be getting people back up and addressing things like loss of confidence, loss of identity, your kind of other psychological or emotional impact that comes with any of those kind of key markers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my gosh, and I so resonate with that Like I feel. Like I feel like my 20s. I was so self assured I could have got any job. I was just so self confident. You know, I freelanced. I freelanced at Fleischmann for like a year and then I'd go to Hill and Nolton for a year and then I go back to Fleischmann and I didn't have if I was coming up to the end of a contract, there was no nervousness, I just knew I'd like jump into another job. And then your 30s it feel like you're really just finding yourself, figuring out what you want to do with your life and then maybe coming back in your 40s, strong and going, yes, this is me, this is my voice, this is my USP, this is how I can serve. So the 30s, I think, are quite challenging.
Speaker 2:No, really challenging. We've got hundreds and hundreds of women who've already joined our community, so we set it up as then we have a community of women and we address the kind of challenges in four ways. So we have a recruitment pillar, so we work with businesses to look at how they can bring women back and actually look at flexible working options and how and also it doesn't have to just be for women, men can be included within this as well. We can come on to some of those things. We have training consultancies. We work with psychologists to ensure that any training that needs to be, or support that needs to be, in place for an emotional, psychological level is there. We look at businesses and help them understand things like matrescence.
Speaker 2:As a woman comes back to a workplace, you're kind of like physiologically changed as a human being after you've had a child and people. That's not kind of like given enough weight or understanding in society, let alone in business. And then, as we've said, you know confidence will be really impacted as well. So how do people often on board, people that are going away to have a child? You know how, if you're recruiting someone into a business and they've never worked there before, there is a whole entire process to make sure that new person is embedded into the business. But you don't have the same for someone who's gone off on maternity or even paternity leave, if it's extended, and your business has fundamentally changed during that time. So how do you support people back in to make sure that you don't really damage someone's confidence even more, overwhelm somebody or lose incredible talent because your processes aren't in place?
Speaker 2:We look at policies around women in the workplace. Are they well? A, do they exist? B if they do exist, are they being used purposefully? Are they being communicated in the right way? Does the wider workforce understand the impact on what those things mean? And again, I'm using the company is called PR Mums. I'm using childcare as an example, but it could be anything again that impacts a woman. We have our community and around that we want that to be a self-mentoring space so people can learn from each other personally, professionally. We will have a content platform that people can share their advice, experiences, reflections. We have events as well. They're not supposed to be events that are like, how could AI impact the PR industry? Not interested. They're all about things that could support a woman in their career and whatever those topics may be. It could just be we have a comedian come and talk and it's something really lighthearted and it gives you kind of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit to be.
Speaker 2:Our first one was Harriet Harman. She's the mother of a house in the UK. She's a very, very famous MP and served from the cabinet. She had lots to say as well. She's a very kind of a strong opponent of women's rights throughout decades and decades. So she kind of was really the benchmark for the type of person we wanted to have. And it's a space where people can learn a great together. And then ultimately what we want to do with this business fingers crossed, touch word is that we start campaigning and those campaigning and advocacy really starts to change policy within our industry. But beyond that, if we can change legislation in the long run, either by ourselves or together with other kind of people who are advocating for the same things in space, then that's a huge, huge win. So we can kind of have a more positive working experience with women. Essentially is what we're going for.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. I'm so proud of everything that you've created, and something that really shone out to me was as soon as I saw your announcement. I mean, I'm sure plenty gone on behind the scenes before you did that public announcement, but so so many people came forward. It was like it just went boom, like you put it out there and people came running. So you know people have been waiting for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that you know, for anyone who started their own business, it's really, really nerve-wracking to do it and I was terrified. I haven't done this alone. I've got Faisana, who's a co-founder, there's Hector and Rory as well. They've kind of been on this from the very, very get-go and started this and have been connecting with people within the wider industry. I was the MD and kind of being the face of it all as we launched. It was really terrifying, I think. God, how is it? No one likes this, but yeah, the response was overwhelming really and, yeah, it shows that there is a need for it. And there are plenty of other people who are talking around this in the same space, which is amazing thing, but I think you know it takes an army to make change, so there's room for everybody.
Speaker 1:Yes, bring it on, bring those people in. If they're speaking the same narrative, right Better together. Exactly yeah, so amazing. And what kind of reception? Because you've worked at quite a few of the big agencies in London. What's the reception been from the agencies? It's been very, very good.
Speaker 2:It's an industry that is kind of it's fast paced. It can be quite brutal industry as well in the lifestyle that it enables. So I think some businesses are, yes, they want to be on board, but at the moment that's kind of fairly performative. But there is a willingness to change and it's just kind of like everyone realizing that we need to do something. What does that look like? How can we do it? And it's not going to happen overnight, but they know it needs to happen, which is the right response.
Speaker 2:We'd love to change things overnight. We just can't, sadly. But it's great that the appetite is there for it and it's moving people slowly across that kind of like whole entire journey and take them with us on it, rather than just saying we want to do, we support what you're doing, we support what you're doing. Then we're going to change policies, we support what you're doing, we're going to change policies and we're going to make sure that we have opportunities for women to come back into the workplace, we will be more flexible, we will have better paternity options, we will have XYZ, and that's going to take a while to get to those points. But if we can support in the right way, as you said, bring the right people in, have expert partners in place. You can help guide them. Then that will hopefully reassure and take people with us and things will change.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was in agencies, the women that were in the senior director roles there. A lot of them didn't have children, and I think the nature of the work is long hours and people invest a lot in their careers. If some of those female leaders don't have children, how does that then impact those that do integrate back into the workforce when it is men in the leadership positions as well?
Speaker 2:To be fair, things have changed quite a lot over the past, I'd say even five years. I think the pandemic has really helped that kind of see what that change could look like, supporting not just people who have got kids at home or other responsibilities, but even just as, whether you're new into the industry as well, you're starting out and you want to go to the gym or you've got a hobby that you want to go and do and everyone's got a life outside of work and I think it's just even just realizing everybody is a human and outside of that you've got other and just taking kind of those ridiculous, the ridiculousness of some of the stuff that we used to do and accept and think was okay, that it's not okay and it is detrimental. And I think as well you know, even prior to that, the conversations around mental health have just been escalating, which is only a positive thing. And you know burnout was a huge thing in our industry. I mean, I've suffered from that three times. The last time it took me well over a year to get through that huge, huge impact and that happens a lot and it's whether and I don't have children either, but it's understanding, like the impact of the pressure that has on individuals. Yes, you're right, you know people who haven't got children it can be difficult to understand what kind of the additional responsibilities are and people that we know who have led companies or are leading companies or businesses or in really senior positions, leadership positions, who have decision making powers within a business as well, those that don't have children.
Speaker 2:When we've had conversations with them, I think as a business owner, they're looking at it from a numbers point of view or from an empathetic point of view, and when you kind of put a different layer around it and I don't understand why they haven't thought this before, just some of these things just blow my mind. But yeah, I didn't really think about that. You just kind of just get on with it, everyone just has to get on with it, and I think it's taking away some of that, that mentality that you know you just come back in if you go, roll your sleeves up, go, go, go. It doesn't matter if you have to be up till midnight. No, and at the end of the day, yes, some of the things that you work on in the PR industry are quite significant. They can be very topical, they can be in the news, but by and large. Do you really need to step to midnight if you're going to promote a new do a communications plan for a new toothpaste? No, you don't. It just isn't necessary.
Speaker 1:I remember being at one agency and one of the directors was crying in the bathroom because Pixie Lott wouldn't agree to go in a giant can. She was genuinely crushed. I remember leaving that night going. What are we doing to?
Speaker 2:ourselves. It's insanity. I look back down and I laugh and I wish I could write a TV show about it, but it would always end up being a sitcom, because even though it was quite severe, it should really sometimes be a thriller, not a sitcom. But you can only look back and laugh at some of the stuff that you thought was acceptable. When you went through You're like why was I stood next to a giant lunchbox with Oreo cookies written on it in Covent Garden?
Speaker 1:I made the world's biggest plowmen's. It was brilliant. Then we were giving out we're dishing out samples of the plowmen's. It was for seriously strong cheddar. I did it. Yeah, some of the stuff. It's funny because in my PR journey I would always flip between consumer and then purpose driven work. It was often like coming towards the end of the fiscal year in February, march, april when they all had budget to spend to finish off. Then I'd go to Monro and Forster or Claremont and do the real purpose driven work.
Speaker 2:I know completely. But you know what the other thing is as part of this and I think a lot of this has been quite cathartic setting up this business and talking to people A as individuals, b is business owners, but also people who would have been clients as well. So from businesses, from that side as well. So some of the bigger, bigger, big global brands that we know that work there have said you know, we have people in our teams who are parents and they don't work five days a week, they work flexibly. We've been working from home pre COVID. It was always kind of a thing and from an agency point of view, so we will have, you know, we look after all of them across the marketing bits, you know, and ad agency will say that you know Janet can't work on a Friday. Or digital agency will say something, or the media buying agency or something, but the PR agencies never say a thing. It's like it's showing up so we'll keep abusing that. So unless they say something, you won't change it.
Speaker 1:It's like that power dynamic. I know when I went in house in 2017. And after running my own boutique agency for five years, and it is almost like you're on the other team when you've got a client, even though you go out for a drink, it feels like you're on one team and, realistically, you're serving them as a client. And I really felt that going in house it was like ah, we're all on the same team. How do we get to that point? How do we feel like we're all on one team when, when we are an agency and a client and we're a mum, we've got all of these other team members to play with?
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't even know what the answer to some of these things are, because we build a rug for our own backs. I think for an industry that sells communication, we're actually very bad at communicating with ourselves in close quarters, but also externally as well, and actually, if we could just change some of those things.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of it is a mindset shift. Totally Right If you, if you position it that we won this client, we are now one team and maybe communicating that and then feeling like you are and then feeling like you are.
Speaker 2:We'd like to work with you as if we're one team, but actually those things don't really exist.
Speaker 2:When it actually happens, it's always kind of there's a kind of chasm between you.
Speaker 2:I've had it twice in my career where you actually have felt like you're one team and it was just a brilliant working experience. The results are incredible as well across the board, because everyone was just brought into each other. There was no fun fighting. There was no kind of like anyone being precious about who owned what. It was just really collaborative, beautiful, amazing and yeah, and I think there's some of them and even you know client side and everything like if you look back and those are the golden days, because you can't, you can't keep recreating that. It takes I suppose it takes a certain type of group people to come together and everything just clicks, that you have that security and trust there that those things can happen. But yeah, you just need one person on the team who doesn't particularly like the work or doesn't get on with some of the other team members, whether that's with you as an agency, and then it just kind of filters out and it permeates into everything else and you can feel it.
Speaker 1:And I wonder if there's a wonder, if there's something. If people have gone from agency life to in house and then when they're working with the agency, then feeling that level of empathy because you know what it's like on the other side, if people have always been client side, they might not know how it is.
Speaker 2:A couple of friends have done that and it actually interesting, I won. We went from the agency to become the client and then moved and you know some of the to a global role and some of the other clients were saying, god, this is really annoying. They won't do this is like have you ever asked them? If you ever asked the agency, if they do that, like, no, like, well, then that there's a reason. Again, you're not communicating.
Speaker 1:Yes, and this comes on to part of the work that I do now in helping people to communicate in their personal lives predominantly is professional lives as well, because I think we do. We invest so much time and energy in our, in our professional lives and we've all got a lot of people in our personal lives and it is about bringing in some of this communications theory that we've, that we've all learned through our careers and applying that in our personal lives and starting to to communicate with more intention. But it's hard. Communication is hard, especially because people use all different tools and unless we ask, how do you like to be communicated with? And I think that comes into when you do, when you take on a new client in your ways of working, it's like, well, do we have weekly or biweekly meetings? And you do do that with clients, but do we do this with friends? We do this with family, all that kind of thing. What do we do this with team members as well? The expectation for team members.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I don't do that with my kind of like friends or family. I think you've got to go to such a rhythm relationships. I think you probably have more of those conversations because it's kind of your much close quarters and even then so many people get it wrong. I got it wrong in my relationship and it's just you know it breaks down. But there's a lot of lessons to be learned from both sides, I think as well, some from in a work relationship, client, whether it's client, agency or just even kind of like within your team, like really just there's, I think sometimes you don't really you don't see the people behind, kind of that. You know they come to really good friends of people, but you don't really see the people. Well, I mean, especially my generation, you were told not to bring a personal life into work and sometimes it was naturally just going to spill over and impact what you do day to day and this you know as a lack of understanding sometimes. I've seen a million times where those things have happened and it's like it's a bit unfair. You don't really understand what's going on personally with that person, but like I don't care, it's like should care. It's just some kind of responsibility of care.
Speaker 2:When I was at an agency, there was a girl. She's very young, she lost her father. He'd been for a while and you know, she was 24, 25 years old. She just lost her dad. She'd had a mandatory time off to go, you know compassionately, and then she came back to work and then it was a dad's funeral and she had to take her dad's funeral as a holiday. I was just like I'm sorry what, I just died and you want to take take her actual holidays. I couldn't, I could not get beyond that and I was like this is just really, really, just just in the. I think it's just in humane, like you know, I understand you have policies in place but they're not mandatory, they're the guidelines and each case is individual and it's like that poor, poor girl that's her, that's her working experience, being told and this company, which is supposed to be this amazing company globally, wins all these employee awards and so forth, best places to work, and asking them to do this, I just think it leaves not a great taste in your mouth.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing. And that is the reality. When I started at the multinational back in 2017, there was no employee well-being program there. So they did a lot with charities, a lot of charity support externally, but it became very obvious that there was nothing to look after employees' lives. So I started researching the science of happiness and the science of happiness at work and started talking about the stuff that I was researching. And then, very quickly, I heard from other people that were interested in well-being and then when we started, we just did an employee resource group and brought a bunch of people together. We want to help employees in their lives and I'm looking back now and thinking post COVID. I can't imagine organisations that aren't supporting employee well-being now, because everybody's had it hard. Everyone went through something at the same time, so I'm hoping that the level of empathy across businesses has had to elevate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wonder if you've got any experience of that.
Speaker 2:Yes, everyone is making concerted effort to do those things. However, you still have businesses at the same time. They give them, they take a certain dose. And today, yes, people have different policies in place. They are much better, people are more up to speed on what they should be doing. But when it comes to, again, people who have got kids in the workplace, then going back to work or mandating you have to be in the office five days a week or four days a week, just kind of feels like we're going backwards by 10 or so years. We're not moving forward and we should be moving forward.
Speaker 1:A company's doing that four or five days a week, mandated.
Speaker 2:There are a couple of big companies are starting to do that and there are arguments for and against. Yes, I think you should have flexible working. People should be trusted to be able to work in a hybrid fashion. I don't think presentialism has much weight, given everything we've been through and actually lots of people were reporting extreme productivity during COVID and people having great profits. So the two things kind of arguments don't really match up there.
Speaker 2:But then if you're going to business centers where there are small businesses you provide coffees or sandwiches or just local businesses around there which are losing money. Economic they've been impacted because people aren't travelling in Then you can see from both ways. But economic society from that business point of view, mentally, personally, from an individual point of view, there has to be a balance. There are some people who really want to go into an office or people who desperately don't want to go into an office. How do you find a working pattern that suits everybody's needs, whether they're caring for a parent or whether they've got to take their kids to name soccer practice or the nativity plays happening, or you have you're going through fertility treatment and you have to go to your appointments at set times, like I used to have to go and do loads of times. There has to be capacity to make sure that there's breathing space beyond that. We don't all have to work in a nine to five fashion as long as the work's done.
Speaker 2:And again, not every industry can do this because the nature of what they do, but most industries and businesses can provide and accommodate things around that. So it's a learning period, isn't it? We've been set in our ways for a very, very long time and it's kind of like tunnel vision of what we work should be and how life should be and how we should perform and how we should show up. But actually things have changed and lots of people don't like change. And how do you appease everybody within that? And it will take a long time to get into a new wave and a new kind of, I think, formula of habits. I don't know what that looks like, what that could be, but hopefully it's flexible and it's hybrid and it suits people's personal and professional lives. There's some kind of balance and you'll left your own devices to find your own balance within that as well.
Speaker 1:What I am hearing from quite a lot of people is that when they get to the office it's just so quiet that then they just think what's the point. So I think that's a challenge, isn't it? It is finding that balance that you want to know that when you get to the office especially if you've got a decent commute which, living in London, you always have that is going to be worth the commute.
Speaker 2:This is it. The juice has to be worth a squeeze, almost. There are plenty of businesses that say lots, of the ones that we work with as well, from our business, from our mums, who, from a recruitment point of view, they will say, like we, everyone has to be in the office on a Monday or on a Thursday, so there's always at least one day of the week where everybody is in and there is that kind of team spirit, there's ability to bond. You can talk about, you know some of your clients, your business, you can form relationships and friendships and there is all kind of like set there, because it's very difficult to do it over Zoom or Teams, so you have meetings with your clients and so forth, we whatever, but there's always one set day a week. Some businesses have gone up to two, but usually yeah, that feels good, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Because, yeah, you want to know. And then you go there and you know that you're going to see your teammates and you organise lots of face-to-face meetings for whilst you're there, because I'm not somebody that needs a lot of physical connection to feel connected with people, but I need some and I think that's it. And especially if you are a mum that's been off on mat leave and you get back and everything's changed and you get back to the office and no one's there like to really feel like you are back in the culture of the organisation, I think culture has been impacted. So how do we create culture when there's, when they're not there or in a remote environment? Has that come up for you guys?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a huge, and I think again it's. This is what I found actually really interesting. It, depending on the type of business you're working with and I'm sure there is kind of more in this as well is what people define as culture. There are some people who will define culture. As you know, we've got we've got a great company culture because we have beers at the Royal Park on a Friday and we have pizza culture, and there are others that we've got these really do these great things together as a team. We have these great policies in place. It depends what you individually define as culture, what you as a business define as culture and how you kind of find your happy, happy, happy place within that as well, and you're looking for new roles and places to work. And there are some people who are very happy with 4pm beers and pizza on Friday. There's people like myself.
Speaker 2:I definitely younger years. I would have thoroughly loved, I enjoyed that Friday night free beers before I go out Amazing. Now I can think of anything worse. I'd want something very, very different, as long as I've got time to see people and build those relationships and feel as if it's a safe place to work as well, like you're respected and you're valued and you know you can contribute and it's collaborative. It's kind of a better kind of my kind of perception of culture and what their business is doing in. You know, are they doing good, are they purposeful, are they contributing themselves in kind of other ways? Do I feel like I'm able to kind of contribute towards that too? So you go home at the end of the day and you're like I've enjoyed today, versus waking up the next day with hangover.
Speaker 1:Right, and then you wreck your whole weekend for just finishing work. So I'd love to just delve into, whilst we're wrapping up, just thinking about the different audiences that PR Mums serves. So we've got Mums, or possibly dads, coming back from Matleave, also got agencies and potentially clients as well. What's the best way for all of them to get involved and to learn more about PR Mums?
Speaker 2:My origins are female over the age of 35, I'd say about 90% have kids. We do have a lot of guys on I know are part of our community as well. We're open to pretty much everybody you know, very inclusive and anyone can get in touch through social media. Linkedin is probably our main channel of communication, and then Instagram or Twitter X as it now is. I can never stop saying Twitter.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, so we have another way that people get involved. Events anyone who wants to be part of it as a speaker or contribute to a theme, a topic, attend, and the same goes for content as well. I mean, anyone wants to write something or have an opinion right away.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing. Well, emma Padden, it's been such a joy to reconnect with you and I wish you all the success going into 2024. And I'm really excited to follow the journey to see how PR Mums evolves going forwards.
Speaker 2:Oh, do I as well. Hopefully in the future we can make a big change happen and that would be the top goal You'll see.
Speaker 1:I'm here with you, supporting you from afar.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, it's good to see you again. Thank you for having me my pleasure.
Speaker 1:See you again soon.
Speaker 2:Bye.
