Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
Welcome to Rediscovering Connection, a Podcast where you'll hear from innovative leaders, researchers, community builders, and facilitators, on the frontier of connection.
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Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
#24 - Michelle Maree - Creating a Community of Location Independent Entrepreneurs
Michelle Maree is the founder and CEO of The Nomad Escape, which runs retreats around the world for digital nomads. She recently launched a digital community, exclusively for location independent entrepreneurs.
As a member of Michelle's "Inner Circle" I felt well-placed to explore the strategic thought behind launching her community - including group size and price point. Why now was the right time to launch, and how running retreats and being at the heart of her own online community impacts her social wellbeing.
During our interview, Michelle shares her unique experience of the pandemic, when a two week retreat turned into a five month co-living experience, and we delve into the importance of creating healthy boundaries to maintain sanity whilst hosting and facilitating workshops for entrepreneurs in beautiful locations around the world.
About Michelle Maree
As the founder and CEO of The Nomad Escape, in the last six years, Michelle has hosted over 1,000 professionals across 35 retreats and 40 events worldwide, fostering growth, networking, and skill enhancement.
Michelle believes that success is built on relationships. Passion drives her to connect and transform the lives of remote professionals, teams, and entrepreneurs.
Website: https://thenomadescape.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-maree-32274a84/
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I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.
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✨Shelley
About Your Host
Hi, I'm Shelley Doyle, a Social Wealth Strategist and Connection Coach. I empower remote and nomadic founders and leaders who crave deeper connections to activate their social wealth, so they can feel trusted, supported, and truly connected—both online and offline—no matter where they are.
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I combine cutting-edge research on social wealth, social wellbeing and social capital with two decades in corporate communications to deliver mind-shifting talks, workshops, and programs around the world.
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Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection. I'm Shelley Doyle and today I'm here with Michelle Marie, and today we're going to delve into Michelle's inner circle. We're going to talk about the nomad escape. We're going to talk about AI, community connection, belonging and how all of this impacts our social well-being being part of a community like this. So welcome, michelle. How are you?
Speaker 2:Thank you. Well, I'm super excited to be here. Your energy is contagious and I'm always happy to connect and share with people, like with your energy. So for me this is fun, so I'm super excited.
Speaker 1:Let's start with the inner circles. I'd love to know, like how it came about and why you decided that now was the time to launch the inner circle is something that was created very organically or existed at the end very organically.
Speaker 2:It's an extension of what I've created over the years and as an extension of myself.
Speaker 2:So for the last six years, I've been running the nomad escape and we started basically as, let's say, just digital nomad travels and trips, which ended up becoming more a business and travel and network club, and many people knew that or know and that know me that I travel around the world, I have a very big network and that I'm constantly engaging and connecting with other entrepreneurs that are always seeking for new opportunities, new business partners, new collaborations. And, as people knew me, um, and my network as well, people kept on asking me like, hey, michelle, um, can I pick your brain? Can I get access to this person in your network? I am looking for a marketer that can help me grow my, let's say, coaching business, or someone who's building a SaaS product and focusing on, like, the needs of the community and knowing that they need like introductions and I know, for me, when I first saw the price points and I was I was like an immediate heart, yes, like I didn't have to hesitate.
Speaker 1:You made it very accessible for, I guess, the right people to be in the room. And and was there much thought that went into a price point? And also the number of participants, because I don't know if you've heard any of my interviews with Robin Dunbar or Richard Bartlett, but there's a big thing about um scale and the number 50 is actually a really critical number. So I wonder if there was much thought behind the that, that number 50 being being what you decided upon yeah, oh, a very interesting question actually.
Speaker 2:Yes, there was a thought behind and that was actually the target 50, uh, because I think it's a very good number to create, um, yeah, a very good number of brand ambassadors. So basically, we made it very accessible for people to get in, people who don't understand the value for them it's expensive, they're like what I'm gonna pay, you know whatever 500 bucks to get into this network. It's just online and these are already not a good fit. But people like you understand the value of one potential connection or just, uh, let's say, a business advice from a fellow entrepreneur. Um, you understand the value out of it and you know we wanted to create that, like this is a no-brainer for the right people. So we knew 50 is feasible and we knew at this price point, that would be, for sure, feasible. So it was really well thought through and we got actually the exact results that we wanted. So, yeah, and I think also, like, with a network like this, it's very important to first give that first group so much value that they are so excited that they naturally come with so much great feedback and testimonials, because actually, if you look in the WhatsApp group, you know people are posting constantly like oh my michelle, I had a conversation with this person was amazing. I hired yousef, I had did this is this and what I do with all these messages. First of all, I am super happy, like my heart glows. And when I see that I'm like wow, I gave these people value way, you know, like way above the number that I charged, basically. So I over delivered. So people are happy. But then also for me it's like a testimonial. I start it and I screenshot it and I can show that to other people. Right, so you guys are the best, uh, yeah, uh, marketing for me, because I do a great job. People are happy, people start talking and it makes it easier for the network to grow.
Speaker 2:And also for you guys like, this is a new framework. What we've, like I've been doing um strategic introductions and community for multiple years, but not within a framework, a technical framework like this. So for us it's uh, in that sense, like from a technical aspect, a beta, and you guys know that as well. That's like, hey, it's not perfect yet technically, but the value is there, but we're still testing out, you know, in the, in the technicalities and, as it is, at this price point you guys are like okay, that's fine, you know so if, if we would already charge like the 5k, whatever we will go to at a certain point, then it has to be smooth and it has to be slick, and now it's fine if there's a glitch, and all these things right. So it gives us a space to develop, to get our feedback to improve and, as we go, increase and offer even more value and a more customized experience beautiful, beautiful and as it does evolve.
Speaker 1:Do you see that number 50 remaining or do you see it expanding in in numbers?
Speaker 2:yes, so basically we are gonna soon do another launch, basically. So the the second batch of people and the minimum participants that we want to get in is again 50 up to 100, and but that will be a separate group, that's like a standalone from the current group, or would it be intermixed?
Speaker 2:it's going to be one big group and that is a great question, because we have spoken about that a lot in the team. Um, because you guys know each other and it feels trusted. Now a new group of people comes in, so we thought about this. The smart thing to do, um, it has its pros and cons and I think that the pros are bigger as we let them in into your group is because you want network expansion, you want to have new energies, you want to have people who are excited and, like you have spoken to many people in the network now that were already valuable for you. So how long? Yes, you can collaborate, and that's the whole intention to find the right people. Let's say, from the 50 people, maybe you find maybe two or three people that you really collaborate with. Like, there's also a limit to how many people you can collaborate with. We all have business. We all have you know we're doing our day to day life and work, so you cannot endlessly call with people and endlessly develop new collaborations and products and services.
Speaker 2:However, after a quarter so we have almost had a quarter now with the inner circle um, you want to get new connections, because how long can you go within the same circle. You know, in a community is always you have, let's say, a 30 percent that's super engaged. Then you have like another 30 percent who's engaged, but he come in, taps in and out. They have maybe 20 percent. You know. You know they're listening on the background and sometimes they, you know, send the message, or yeah, I get a message from them and you have 20 percent who just bought it and just not participate, and it's always with memberships and with courses and that is fine. Um, you want to have new energy because I want to feed you new connections, right.
Speaker 2:So that's why we decided to bring everything in one group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and are there any? Have you got any kind of rules of play in the background, like if people are completely inactive for a couple of months, like do you do they need to relinquish their place because there's only a finite number of places available, or are you just allowing that membership to ride for the duration, regardless of their presence?
Speaker 2:yeah, I love it that you're asking this question, because these are exactly the questions that we discuss in the team.
Speaker 2:Uh, actually, we were considering to tell them like, hey, you need to be active and you need to make your profile or else we're going to remove your membership and it's a no refund policy. Um, however, I know that there's a few people in the group who are running very big and very busy businesses and when you now force them like they had interests, they want to be part of something, they want to be able to fall back on something. But when you now force them to engage, well, maybe now is not the time. Maybe they are getting like whatever investment and they're onboarding new teams and now they need to start talking within a network with other people to find potential collaborations, but they're already running multiple seven-figure businesses and they're just making mega busy. Then you could create also, like um, resistance and saying like, hey, michelle, I, I paid for this, I want to be part of this, I am following it and my time will come when I need something right.
Speaker 2:I want to give people that space as well. It's more like if you're not active and you don't make a profile, we cannot connect you, I cannot do any recommendations, I don't know who you are, what you're working on, so, yeah, you've paid. And if you're active, the other people are not even missing you because they don't even know you exist. So ideally, you want people there. But it's different because this is not a mastermind program for six weeks that you have to attend every call. It's just like a network club and our biggest promise is you get, uh, curated introductions or recommendations to the people who could be a good match for you based on the data that we have about you. And, yeah, it's. It's a very good question, because all these questions I've been thinking about should be very strict. We need to text them, but I know as well myself.
Speaker 1:I am part of multiple communities and I'm not always active, but when I need it, I like to have access to them right and, yeah, part of the work that I've been doing is to really see what our capacity levels are like, how many communities we can be a participant of, where you know you get. You only get as much value as you give, don't you? So, um, I've been looking at mine recently and there's one community that I've been part of for a couple of years that I've really got a lot out of, but the last couple of events that I attended, I did begin to feel that actually, this isn't aligned with where I am right now, and I'm sad because I love all the people in it, but I I just know that this chapter I need to kind of be really leaning into a few other communities that I am feeling able to be more of an active participant of yeah, and there's no right or wrong in it.
Speaker 2:Like you evolve in your journey and you're part of communities to grow, to take a few nuggets out, and sometimes you find a community that you stick with for years, and sometimes that is a quarter. You're like, ok, this was great, and now I'm tapping into another industry or another product or service or this, other things in your personal life that come up and you need to prioritize your kids, for example. Right, because outside of all of this, we have also our personal lives, which we, you know, don't always have influence on, and so we need to also give space to people's personal lives, because it's not only the online world, only the online communities. I think those are a great support. Those are, these communities are provide a peace of mind in sense of like I have belonging.
Speaker 2:There's a group of people out there even I've never met them that understand me or in the same boat. I can get the same energy. Them that understand me or in the same boat I can get the same energy. I can drop a question in the group and find solutions or find support, but it doesn't mean that you always have to be active. It's kind of like having a best friend. You know, you know your friend is there, but you don't have to call every day, right, so that the idea in the back of your mind that is a group of people that I can fall back on, uh, is just great, yeah and that really speaks to part of the work that I've been doing over the last three years.
Speaker 1:So when I first moved to Canada um, I'm someone that's traveled a lot, like I've lived in 10 different places you know very much speak to you and the community of people that that you work with, um. So I have a lot of people in my life, a lot of different pockets of communities that I've created and left and um. But I actually discovered when I came here to Canada that I hadn't actually been nurturing a lot of those connections for quite a while and I had been great at it, like I was brilliant at it when I didn't have to do patron and didn't have um my own agency and you know I wasn't juggling as many plates and and, yeah, I got kind of I got kind of sad about it that I hadn't been nurturing the important people in my life. So I have been making a conscious change in that. But even when you said you got your best friend in the back of your mind, like for me, I actually started mapping the people in my life and discovered that even through that process like sometimes it did make me a little bit sad because I'm like I have these incredible people. They're kind of on the outskirts and it doesn't feel like they're in my life, but actually seeing them on paper helped to know that they are there and I know that our paths will cross again and I can take inspired action to reconnect with them, and I have been doing a lot of that over the last couple of years.
Speaker 1:Um, something that's um intriguing me is so far I know a lot of the people that have come into the community have been attendees at your retreats the nomad escape retreats um, have you yet experienced it the other way? Because if you haven't, then it's like definitely coming, but people that have been part of your like inner circle that actually you haven't met yet, and then they're going to come to a retreat and I'm so curious as to how this hybrid the feel of these hybrid relationships are going to going to be experienced yeah, yeah, we had both ways and I think that both ways actually it doesn't really matter, because as well online as offline, we have a certain energy, I think, and the way we run the community, how we communicate with people, that is very similar in online and offline.
Speaker 2:Only offline you receive hugs with it and we hold each other and we have a lot of fun as well, right, and do more, you know, like, uh, let's say, outdoor activities, um, but the vibe, the energy, the support, the positivity is very similar. So that's the feedback that I get. Like when people know me from online and they meet me in offline, they're like, oh, my god, I'm so excited I finally meet you. I've been following you. For me, it's so strange. I'm like, oh, that's so weird that people say that to me. But the feedback I constantly get is like, wow, you're exactly the same as like online. You know, like, of course, I present in a certain way if I really need to host a webinar or a presentation, but I have a very similar energy in real life and it feels very trusted.
Speaker 2:And the other way around is that people are in the retreats and they say, hey, I want to get you know, keep connected and stay connected. I want to have this energy, keep on going. And yeah, then they join online. So it's a very organic way of staying connected. And we have also people who join a retreat and they don't want to join online. They're not online people. And we have people who join the online community and they will not attend the retreats because, for multiple reasons, they'd rather join online because they can do it from home. They're busy, they cannot always travel, for whatever reason that might be. Um, so there's something now for anyone with any type of circumstances, as long as they have an entrepreneurial mindset and just thinking about like social well-being.
Speaker 1:So this is the area that I'm really interested and passionate about. So it it's basically when there's an absence of loneliness, so you're feeling like your social needs are completely met. And I do wonder, being the beating heart of this community, is this community helping to satisfy your social needs and your social well-being?
Speaker 2:Very interesting question. When I started the Nomad Escape, it was from a pain point Me as an online entrepreneur. So before I did the Nomad Escape, I was a marketer, or I taught myself digital marketing, let's say like that and I got my first clients and I traveled the world and I realized, okay, in that sense, I made it. That was my goal to be location independent, living in Bali, having a nice Instagram, you know like having the dream life, whatever that might be A lot of people dream about, and I found out that it's amazing, but it can become very lonely even though you're traveling. And I started talking with many people about it and, like they also experienced totally the same, and especially for business owners, because our brains are a little bit differently wired. Because you're always on, you're always thinking about it. It's your baby, what can you create more? And you know like, okay, which campaign are we going to run? Or who do I need to hire? I had a conversation with this client and it's still stuck in your mind. It just you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, it never shuts off and you always are craving for growth and even though you go to an amazing event, you meet amazing people. Having conversations about this is very particular and for me personally, even though I met a lot of people, that specific part was not met. While I was traveling around and not meeting the right people, I met maybe the right people, but then you needed to ask the right people in. I met maybe the right people, but then you needed to ask the right questions to identify that they had the same needs or else it stays quite shallow, and that's what I did. I started interviewing people like, hey, what are your biggest challenges? And finding out the loneliness or the need for a, let's say, a mastermind group, a support group, entrepreneurial support group, and then, okay, let's create for people like myself.
Speaker 2:Um, that starts, became one crazy long ride of doing many trips and retreats back to back for uh four years, five years, but in the pandemic we were forced to stop because of the pandemic, but we were running a trip at that time. That trip, the two-week trip, turned out in a five-month trip with this group who thought they would join us for two weeks. They stayed for five months because no one wants to go home. The world closed down. There was official uh lockdown. I can remember that day so clearly and watch news and like this official lockdown, state of emergency, and I am running an entrepreneur trip on the Zoroast Islands with people from South Africa, from Italy, from Estonia, from Canada, from US. Oh my god, I don't even know what that means a pandemic or a lockdown. I've never been in this. And yeah, I told everyone guys, go home, because I don't know what's going to happen, I don't know if you're going to meet your family or whatever. And everyone said, no, we want to stay with you. So, long story short, these people sticked together and it became a five-month nomad escape. So, which we thought was two weeks, became months. And then after, uh, the world opened a little bit. So I told those people go home now. Now you can.
Speaker 2:But I started running out of finance because we were not operational as we were. So then I thought, okay, I'm gonna run these programs, I'm gonna run like these network retreats basically, and I sold so much back to back, like one week on one week off, one week on one week off, we sold one of the other. We were the only organization in the pandemic that was still doing this. We were crazy. We were people like, how do you do this? But people wanted to get out. Yeah, they were craving and then, once they got a flight, they're like, okay, okay, I'm going to go and I'm going to meet these people.
Speaker 2:So that period, that whole period, ended up in doing I don't know, like 15 retreats, almost back to back, having this five month nomad escape before that building a startup and after that doing also multiple retreats which brought me actually to the opposite of being lonely is being overwhelmed by constant, uh, social situations. I never had a moment for myself. I was never alone. I was always surrounded with other people. So at a point I was like I can't do this anymore. It's too much.
Speaker 2:And many people I have they tend to lean towards me because I'm very helpful, very caring and I want to help people. So people started leaning on me a lot and I had a hard time with having boundaries there. So I became kind of like more a entrepreneur, therapist or social worker, and that's also my background. I'm a social worker and a teacher, so that is within me deeply rooted. So I'm naturally always I tend to help people. But it was not healthy for me anymore. So I had to step down a lot on doing all these events and have a normal private life, because I was always surrounded with my community and then I was like no, I need my normal own house because we were living in amazing beautiful villas with a group of people. But it was never peace of mind for me because I was always running that community. So I had to force myself to have a, let's say, a normal life, living by myself, which led to and it's interesting that you're asking that now actually the stage that I'm in.
Speaker 2:Currently I start feeling that loneliness again because I had loneliness, I had an overload of social and then I stepped back of hosting so many retreats because I really needed mind space and also building online products and services and more the company retreats that we're focusing on, which makes me work a lot alone behind a laptop from home or coffee shops or co-working, and I have great friends and I have even family here and stuff, but I do live by myself and I work with myself and I have a remote team, which is great, but I am physically alone most of the time and I feel and it's interesting that you said for the last two weeks heavily that sense of loneliness creeping in again and I do feel directly that it's like it impacts your mental health, like, for example, a conversation like this I love this, like it's already given me a lot of energy, like these, you know, that's why I also have a community. It lights me up. If I would do only still digital marketing of another job, that I would not be in touch with people as I am now, I'm not sure if I could do this, I would probably find another job and, I don't know, maybe be a teacher, what I was before.
Speaker 2:Only the complexity there is. I tasted the freedom lifestyle, you know, and I know there's way more freedom, way more opportunities, way more like a financial growth possible there than when you are a teacher and work every day nine to five. Maybe you have school holidays, which is great. So that's a bit like the confusing part. Once you have the taste of this lifestyle, it's too good to be true, it's, it's limitless, but it's also can become lonely. So this for me is a very good middle ground of still being connected with people and being free and working online. But now, personally, I'm also like hey, I I feel now the urge, which I didn't have for a long time, to travel.
Speaker 2:So I'm now actually going for five months nonstop traveling, becoming really a digital nomad again, which I haven't done for a while, wow so, and I hope to get more inspiration there again and create communities also in the places where I am and host events where are you going?
Speaker 2:where are you going? Uh, I go first to Bulgaria to Nomad Bansko Fest, to actually one of the keynote speakers to open the events. And then I go to Mindvalley in Tallinn uh, also there host workshops. And then I go to my mom in the netherlands, then I go to dubai for networking and meet friends and then I go to thailand to host actually and I have not announced that yet in the nomad escape, but I did market research to do uh, to host a luxury retreat for single and successful entrepreneurs, because I see such a big need for it in our community.
Speaker 2:In every retreat that we have, there's multiple very successful people that have a hard time finding a partner or friends who can travel with them in that way. So we're in the yeah, it's in the creation phase and I already have the first clients basically for that. So that would be yeah. Then Thailand, and then I'm invited to go to Buenos Aires to experience how Buenos Aires is for a retreat destination. So the government they want to attract, like people who run retreats and digital nomads related stuff. And then morocco there's a mindfulness retreat for entrepreneurs and then I need to go back to madeira island to host my own retreats and then with island fest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, wow wow, wow, what a year. It's crazy, yeah, maybe. Maybe the sign is just embrace this moment, whilst it does feel a little bit lonely, just use it to just really reconnect with self. And actually that's the first step in my program.
Speaker 1:Ask yourself all the kind of questions that you would want to be asking to a new best friend and, like, really melt into this time with you that you have, because it's gonna get busy, then you need sometimes to taste the opposite again to uh realize what you had right I think the last question, kind of building on that last point, on kind of the loneliness thing, but also the professional and personal and the boundary, or the zero boundary that there potentially is, because I imagine all the people that you're having on your retreat, they're the kind of people that when you're living in Bali you would have wanted them to be your best mates, but then you as the facilitator, as the host, it's like finding that boundary between the two. How have you navigated that or how are you navigating that?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, well, that was actually the story that I just shared with you from being like overload of community and social interactions made me actually pretty, not distant, but like, hey, I'm here to facilitate, I'm here to help you, but besides that, this is my business and it's my work. It's hard to see for people because it feels like a leisure, like we're facilitating workshops, but then at the beach and oceanfront and beautiful, then we party and we go all doing fun stuff and out for dinners. So it feels like it's free time, but there's a whole framework behind it and a lot of people want to hang out and then travel together and then I'm like sometimes just pretty distant and I don't answer my phone always because there's so many people wanting to be my friend, which is great and I would love that, but mathematically it's just like impossible. I do have my own friends and actually a big part of my own friends right now is from the nomad escape as well.
Speaker 2:So my best friends are at the end from the nomad escape and like I think 10 of them live now here in madera island, which I see, uh, on a consistent base and became really my best friend and my core, but all the new people coming in. Yeah, potentially from every group. There's one, two people that I'm like, hey, you know, like this is like really cool, um, but it's just impossible, time wise, to maintain contact with everyone. So so me not living with them in a house, that's already very like having the boundary, obviously, and just going home and then after the retreat it's like okay, until 12 o'clock and then it's done.
Speaker 2:I say sorry guys go back get out Instead of hanging down at the pool and going there and another outdoor exploration, because then it never ends yeah, and from from my conversation with robin dunbar.
Speaker 1:So he he identifies the different spheres of intimacy that we have with our friends and he said it's our closest, 12 to 15, who have the biggest impact on our health and happiness and we should be spending about 60 percent of our social time on this core of 12 to 15 people yeah, that's very important, yeah, and that's why it's so.
Speaker 2:I think, like the whole core of the nomad escape, it's all about your network and community and your environment I'm being very conscious about. Okay, like, who do you spend your time with? It's a very cliche sentence for most people in entrepreneurship, but like, you are the average of the five people that you spend most time with. So study those people and then you understand the stage that you're at and then it's up to you to assess and to find out is this aligned with the goals that I have, or a situation that to be in? And there's no hard feeling around that that doesn't have to. You know, there's no judgment towards the other people, but it's more an assessment on your own situation of like, where am I now, where do I want to be? And the people around me? Does that contribute?
Speaker 2:And I believe that people like us, we are constantly, constantly seeking for growth, and everything, um is constantly changing for anyone and everyone in the world, but specifically for the people who seek growth. And then it's inevitable that you sometimes will leave certain social situations or environments, or else you're kind of stagnant. So where are you going to grow? Right, um, and it's our own responsibility, I think, and then that is where growth can happen, if you're open to it 100.
Speaker 1:I so resonate. I went to a tedx a couple of weeks ago and the theme was it's up to us, and that has really stayed in my mind and it really is. Our social well-being is up to us. We are the ones that need to take the inspired action. So I I have so enjoyed this conversation, michelle. It's been such a thrill to, like go that level deeper with you, to really understand your motivation and to really get excited about what's coming next. So I'm thrilled to be part of your community and to really get excited about what's coming next. So I'm thrilled to be part of your community and I look forward to seeing where, seeing where it all goes and being with you on this journey.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much it was really, really an honor to be here.
