Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
Welcome to Rediscovering Connection, a Podcast where you'll hear from innovative leaders, researchers, community builders, and facilitators, on the frontier of connection.
Through soulful conversations, we explore new ways to connect, on-and-offline, to support our social and digital wellbeing.
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Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
#25 - Nim de Swardt - The Power of Intergenerational Friendships and Asking the Right Questions
Nim de Swardt is an Intergenerational Connection Expert, Speaker, Connection Facilitator, Writer and Advisor who co-founded a conversation card deck, named RE-CONNECT.
This episode is perfect for facilitators, and anyone wanting to deepen their conversations and discover the benefits of age diversity in our friendships.
During our interview, Nim reveals that connecting across generations, no matter what age you are, can improve your health, she shares personal stories that highlight the mutual benefits of these connections, why RE-CONNECT was born and how it's now making waves at conferences.
About Nim de Swardt
Nim de Swardt is an advocate for intergenerational friendships and social connection.
After growing up in a tree house in North Queensland, Australia, Nim lived in four continents and traveled to over 64 countries, before returning and settling back home in Australia.
Website: https://www.nimdeswardt.com
https://www.reconnect.global/ (use code 'SHELLEY' at checkout)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nimdeswardt/
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I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.
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Love & sparkles,
✨Shelley
About Your Host
Hi, I'm Shelley Doyle, a Social Wealth Strategist and Connection Coach. I empower remote and nomadic founders and leaders who crave deeper connections to activate their social wealth, so they can feel trusted, supported, and truly connected—both online and offline—no matter where they are.
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we're living in the most age diverse time in human history. We have an aging population and we speak about all these different aspects of diversity whether it's racial diversity, gender diversity but age diversity is an untapped well of innovation and just has delivered so much joy and purpose in my life, and it's actually scientifically proven that connecting across the generations, no matter what age you are, improves your health. I have lived intergen my entire life and now help inspire others to really consider the age diversity that exists within their life and help them really understand the benefits of connecting intergenerationally.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection. I am Shelley Doyle and I'm here today with a guest who came onto my radar through a friend. We used to work at the same PR agency, although our paths did not cross, and when I reconnected with someone that used to work there, he asked me do you know Nim? Of course I did not, so I began stalking her on LinkedIn and soon came to realize that Nim is in a similar territory to me, very passionate about social connection, belonging. Nim has also created a fantastic relationship deepening game, which I have my own copy of here and I have been playing around with, and another topic that's really close to Nim's heart is intergenerational friendship. So, before any longer, I shall introduce you to Nim de Schwart. I hope I'm saying that correctly. Welcome.
Speaker 1:Nim, well done. Thank you, shelley. So good to be here. Love a cross-continental conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes and Australia is somewhere that's very close to my heart. I've lived over east coast and west Coast, so I really want this opportunity to let everybody know, like what this passion project is that you're working on, and maybe just going back a little way like how have you gotten to where you are today?
Speaker 1:I think the first place I'll start is. You mentioned Australia and you know I grew up in a very small town. I actually grew up in a tree house like in the middle of the rainforest in Port Douglas in North Queensland and it was a very small community. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I really grew up connected to community and Mother Nature and from a very early age I became a curious observer of humans. This was in the pre-Doom scrolling era, so my curiosity for connection really started young.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I guess I've just always been so captivated by how we humans connect, communicate, collaborate. Humans connect, communicate, collaborate. And fun fact is that I actually did a degree in photography and my camera was my original wand for human connection and it was really a passport to intimately connect with the humans on the other side of the camera. And it was here that I started to witness my gifts to connect with humans and it became so natural and I could very easily make humans feel safe and seen and relaxed and open. And you know, getting your photo taken is never a safe and relaxed and open experience.
Speaker 1:So I guess, um, even though I grew up and I had such a humble beginning. Um, I am super hyper, curious and travel has always been a main vein similar to you, um, a main vein or thread to my world. And, yeah, like I didn't experience plane travel until I was 14 years old, but then, you know, when I was 30 years old, I was traveling 70% of my life and averaging 400,000 miles a year. I've lived across four continents and traveled to over 64 countries and, yeah, I guess the greatest journey actually has just been coming home to myself. And coming back to Australia after living and working overseas for 10 years was one of the greatest decisions I ever made, but actually a decision that I made when I was extremely lonely, which is ironic. A mentor once said to me that your mess can be your message, and I feel like it's a privilege to have experienced those depths of loneliness in the corporate grind, because that has given me a greater appreciation to the value of connection, and that's why we do the work that we do beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's actually making me a bit teary because I just dropped my mum at the ferry this a couple of days ago after a two and a half week visit.
Speaker 2:So I'm definitely feeling that pull for home and homesickness at the moment.
Speaker 2:Um and I connected with one of my favorite people in the UK today and she reminded me of um, that fable about the fisherman, the fisherman and the businessman. I don't know if you've heard that it's them. So the fisherman is out collecting fish and the businessman goes over and asks him about how many fish he's collected and then what he's going to do with the rest of his day and kind of collects a few fish enough for his family, and then he goes home and plays with his kids and and then the fisherman and then the businessman tries to encourage him to make a business out of it and how he could collect more fish and what that could then do for his life and all of this it was the ultimate game was to then collect a few fish every day and play with his kids. So it's like we go on this big journey seeking and the reality is for many of us it's the return that we're all, then, seeking, we're returning to what we had, with a much, much deeper appreciation for what it is.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and you know, you know this well, shelley, because you've experienced firsthand the expatriate life. And, yeah, like there was a stage in my life where I never thought I wouldn't live in a big city internationally and be working in international business. And now I feel so grateful that I can live on the Gold Coast and have the lifestyle that I want but also work internationally. And I think COVID was a blessing for that, because it gave us permission to choose where we wanted to live but be able to work on whatever we wanted. Um, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:So let's talk intergenerational friendship. Um, I have my own experiences of this through multiple businesses that I was in and my mentors were much older than me. Um, I also had a very, very close relationship with my grandparents growing up. My mom and dad were both separated, so we would be at my nan and granddad's house every weekend for quite a long time, so I was very, very close. My grandfather, who I was very close with, has recently passed and there's a real loss there because he he was like, he was like my person, you know, like he would talk to anybody. He's published a couple of books, and I guess the last one for me to mention is my spiritual mentor here in Victoria BC called Bill, who came and met my mum a few days ago, which was really beautiful, and every time I see him he brings me something to read, something profound. I've got one here that says "'Nothing makes you feel as unique and as loved "'as another seeing you for who you really are. "'someone who looks into your soul and cannot look away'". Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 1:He's delivering the wisdom every time. You see him, dear Bill, yeah.
Speaker 2:He really is, and I feel incredibly blessed. So maybe I'd love to touch on some of those connections that you've made that have been really profound in your life and has really sparked that intrigue and inspiration to, I guess, be an advocate for this way of living.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, Shelley. Like we could do six podcasts on this topic together. You know, intergenerational connection has been my life's main thread and essentially intergenerational connection is bringing together the different generations in mutually beneficial ways, and it really has such a profound ability to promote empathy and understanding. I think the first place I'll start is why it's important. We're living in the most age diverse time in human history. We have an aging population and we speak about all these different aspects of diversity, whether it's racial diversity, gender diversity but age diversity is an untapped well of innovation and just has delivered so much joy and purpose in my life. And it's actually scientifically proven that connecting across the generations, no matter what age you are, improves your health, you know. It increases our shared learning, you know, our sharing of our skills and our life experiences and knowledge. It strengthens both us and our feelings of being connected, but also it strengthens our families and our communities and our workplaces. And I have lived inter-gen my entire life and now help inspire others to really consider the age diversity that exists within their life and help them really understand the benefits of connecting intergenerationally. And yeah, I guess living intergen for me is, you know, it's a way of life and I've been so blessed to have. You know, I have an unofficial board of directors in my life, a board of modern elders. I call them and I just feel you know, no matter where you are in your life, these elders are, they're my wise counsel and, you know, they provide me with direction that no Instagram quote could ever provide me. And I think that the value that I get from these multi-generational relationships in my life is it's so fulfilling, but it's also such a win-win and there's this two-way exchange and this reciprocity that goes on. And so, just like your relationship with Bill Shelley, you know, like he is gaining so much from that dynamic, as well as your own, and I think once you experience a win-win, it gets quite addictive because you get to see that, wow, there's a give and take. But there's also this mutual exchange that happens in these intergenerational friendships and once you identify those win-wins, you know it's just so beneficial for both parties.
Speaker 1:Some key elders in my journey that have really shaped my life experiences. So when I was in my corporate days, I was the youngest direct report to a 70-year-old CEO of a $16 billion company and I was 30 and he was 70. And we, you know in the corporate environment we're an intergenerational dream team and you know he brought his wisdom and his experience and I brought my innovative thinking and my energy and this combination was so disruptive but also so beneficial because it was the win-win and we created a global program that really elevated other mutual mentorships across the organization and it became a very pioneering innovation engine for this organization and I guess in the workplace you know you hear this happening with the mentee mentor relationship, but what people don't understand is you can recreate that dynamics also not only professionally but also personally. I got really curious by intergenerational collaboration and went on to research it quite deeply, and that's when I met Chip Conley, and Chip is the founder of the Modern Elder Academy. He is also the was a strategic advisor to the Airbnb founders and Chip's story is beautiful.
Speaker 1:You know he was recruited by the Airbnb founders at the early stages and they brought him in as a strategic advisor. But what happened was quite profound because he became the resident modern elder at Airbnb and it was through his experience here that he wrote his book Wisdom at Work the Making of a Modern Elder. And when I read Chip's book I thought that's it. That's what I've experienced and that's what I believe in. And so I went over to Mexico and worked and studied with Chip and his team and then we went on to teach MEA's first intergenerational wisdom sharing workshop. And I continue to work closely with Chip and the Modern Elder Academy team because they have always been such champions for this notion of intergenerational wisdom sharing. And I think, especially on the ageing journey, I think the aspect of intergenerational friendships or connection becomes more magnified when you're reflecting on things like legacy and service. So it's also scientifically proven that if you have intergenerational connections as you are aging, it's better for your health. So it makes us healthier and happier and more purposeful humans.
Speaker 2:Wow, incredible. That trip to Mexico must have been so profound, like lifechanging, I'm sure yeah, it was, it really was prior to finding your game, which is called reconnect uh, conversation parts for deeper connection.
Speaker 2:Um, so prior to finding this, I was I was utilizing Arthur Aaron's 39 questions which he published back in the 90s and he's still going with it, so still using the same questions. He and his wife were still using them over Zoom with friends during the COVID pandemic. So I was like these questions have lasted the test of time and I've thoroughly enjoyed using them. But I must say, using your cards feels really nice, like having something tangible in your hands that, honestly, I'm just keeping in my bag now. And I went to a HR networking like summer do last week and I had them on my bag and I found the first few conversations with people that I didn't know. People were like what do you do? Where are you coming from? And it's like OK, so I got past those. And then I met a few people that I already knew. So I pulled out this and just invited a couple of people and then, of course, people just start flocking as soon as they see that you're doing something a little bit gamified. So then we had like a whole circle of people and we're just playing Like we're not even playing that many of them, because it feels like it is that conversation starter, that sometimes you need to just take the conversation topic to a bit more of an interesting level.
Speaker 2:I had my mum here last week, so one of the questions that came up it was something about what would you tell like a 20 something version of yourself, and both her and her husband both said then not to worry or not to be fearful because it like it'll all be OK, or not to be fearful because it like it'll all be okay. And for me that was a really profound moment to hear that from them, being someone that's actually um, you know, three years ago we didn't need to come to Canada and we did definitely question why the heck we're doing this, but I'd had like a strong message going this is going to be the making of you. You need to do this. You know it can be two years, three years, until we come back, um. So I kind of embrace the fear and I step beyond the fear to make this happen and I feel like things are moving here in more of an authentic direction for me.
Speaker 2:But I don't want to be telling my 30 something version of myself not to worry. I want to just do it, do the thing and then come back and go. Yes, we did this. I don't know where we're going to go with this piece of the conversation, but just maybe what this is doing, what impact this is having and, like the event last week at the conference that you're at and I saw the video of just everyone in the audience playing this that you are making a real impact with this. So congratulations, well done, and where's it going?
Speaker 1:Thank you. Well, who knows where is it going? I'm on the train, but the first place I'll start is for humans to connect. Effective conversations and communication often begins with the right questions, and what Reconnect does is it's essentially a tool, because what it's not rocket science, but actually having a physical card puts something between just asking a more deeper question out of the blue and these powerful questions set the stage for a deeper understanding and stronger connections and really start to cultivate these environments where everyone feels heard and valued.
Speaker 1:And what you witness with your mum, which we often witness when people are interacting with Reconnect, is, you know, in this crazy busy world that's AI and digital overload, this notion of reflection and nostalgia is actually scientifically proven to be great for our health, and so having these opportune moments to reflect don't really often happen, but the cards give people the permission to do that, and I think that the way that the reconnect questions are structured are they're deeply important, universal themes, they're age-inclusive themes, but they are deeply personal when answered. And so, you know, we ask about things like experiences and emotions and reflections and really encourage that storytelling. And I think that this is me in that deck, because in Western cultures, we've really lost the art of sharing stories, in particular across the generations. And you know, in the Australian culture our Indigenous Australians are, you know, they are the longest and most profound storytellers of this lifetime and we used to gather around the campfire and share stories across the ages. But this is a lost art and what Reconnect does is it gives us a tool to help us share stories again across the ages, just like you were doing with your mum. Reconnect was born out of eight years of research and I really I couldn't not do a product because the research was just telling me that people actually just need a very simple, accessible tool to help them get off their phones and to help them start to facilitate self-facilitate, give them agency to facilitate deeper and more meaningful conversations. And yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, like the moment that you mentioned at this conference last week, this is my ultimate highest vision board moment to witness an environment like you know. To witness an environment like you know. A conference can be a conference experience and having hundreds of people be. You know, they were gifted a reconnect card and a secret envelope and they opened that envelope and the icebreaker was they spoke to their neighbour using one of the reconnect questions was. They spoke to their neighbour using one of the Reconnect questions and the entire room, shelley, ignited with human connection energy and that for me you know that brings tears to my eyes, because witnessing humans connect and witnessing humans reconnect is literally the best thing I've ever experienced and that's the power of what Reconnect is doing.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I guess, like the last thing I'll say is, what I love about the story that you shared is that you know, probably by coincidence, and that is, reconnect is used in a lot of family or intergenerational contexts and that brings me a lot of joy to hear, because sharing across the different ages, as you know, is something I'm so passionate about, and Reconnect is a very accessible tool to help people do have those conversations with, whether it's with family, or in the workplace or in community so this weekend I'm going camping with friends, so I know there's three stages of the questions.
Speaker 2:I wonder how, how you would potentially play it like maybe on night one just bring out stage one questions and like just get really comfy cozy asking each other those kind of top level questions, and then maybe during the day on day two maybe bring out a couple of stage two questions and just see how we feel with it, and then maybe Saturday night after a glass of wine, if we're feeling comfortable, then maybe go to stage three. How does that?
Speaker 1:I think the the great thing about reconnect is it's uh, it has a lot of self-agency and so it's a choose your own adventure style. And so you know, not every human like we're huge connectors, right, you and we love human connection, but you know others it takes time for them to really warm up. And the thing is, with reconnectors, environment is really important, and so being camping and being in nature is actually the perfect Petri dish in terms of the environment and the conditions. But the good thing is is that in the deck there's three levels of depth to the question. We never like to say that it's easier easy to hard questions, because you know a hard question to someone might be an easy question to someone else. So it's really about the depth.
Speaker 1:And you know, in the pink level the questions it's a really good warm up to get people sharing, sometimes people who maybe aren't used to having conversations or sharing. You know it's nice because it's fun, it's light, it's accessible, it's easy, you know, and, and so you know you might want to get the muscles, the connection muscles, warmed up. But a lot of people also just like to shuffle the deck and play at random and trust that the card that they're being asked is the card they're meant to receive on that particular day. I think the last thing I'll say is the self-agency piece. So you know it's really up to the individual on how much they want to share. You know there's no pressure when you play Reconnect that you have to. You know that you have to share everything. It's really up to the user who's experiencing it and how safe they feel in terms of how much or what they want to share um, I facilitated a workshop at a university a few weeks ago and I just had it as my icebreaker.
Speaker 2:We had like half an hour of drinks and pizzas before we sat in circle, so I just had them in my hands and anyone that came over, I invited them to choose a card and I played it. That you can either stick with the what the card you chose or you can twist. So stick or twist every single, every single person stuck with a card. They chose every single one, which I thought was intriguing. And then the last thing I've done with this deck I've been playing around a lot.
Speaker 2:So I went to an intro to tarot session a few weeks ago, um, and I thought I wonder if, I wonder if I could use this. So after a little bit of an intro, they then matched us with a partner and then, like, the partner obviously bought a tarot deck and I was like, well, I'm bringing this to see if there's anything that I can do. So we played with a few different ways that I could use it. So the way that we went with in the end was I pulled three cards at random for him, then he gave me short form answers to all three and then, like, sat with it to see if something came up that could benefit him and something did wow, I've never heard this way.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is innovation happening? Live right here, because I've never. You know. And it is this choose your own adventure right and you can co-create. And that's the thing with reconnect is it is a co-creation with the partner or partners that you're playing with um, maybe I'll do an article all the ways you can play with Reconnect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's a valid thought. I think, at the end of the day, it's stimulating the sharing of stories and this reflection. And you know, quite often as humans, it's not until we say something out loud that the reflection really lands. And quite often when people play reconnect, it's after the game that they have a lot of insights and integrations because, you know, maybe they've thought about in a moment or experience or reflected on something in their current life that they just haven't had the space to really consider.
Speaker 2:And that's it we learn about ourselves through interactions.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, we need to write that on a T-shirt, shelley.
Speaker 2:Nim, it's been a beautiful, beautiful opportunity to speak to you today. Are there any final words that you would love to share before we sign off? I will, of course, include all of your links and all of the ways that people can buy this beautiful game that's going to help them reconnect in their own lives.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess you know, we know that we're stronger when we stand together and I think that bridging the gaps between the different generations with empathy, with respect and with open hearts, you know that for me it means that we're recognising this.
Speaker 1:You know, wealth of knowledge and experience and perspectives that every age brings, and I hope that you know today's podcast inspires some listeners to you know, have more conscious choices when it comes to fostering deeper connections across the ages, because it really celebrates our shared humanity. And I think that I know that you know these intergenerational relationships enrich our lives and they enhance our collective well-being and you know this is we want to have a future where every voice is heard and every human feels seen and valued, and so why not? Let's start getting curious to connect across the ages and leading with that curiosity over that judgment. Because I think in our current world, with, you know, the bombardment of these generational divides and these generational naming and shaming, it's very easier to be influenced by media, of these divisive narratives, and I demand a new, inclusive narrative. I think living inter-gen is a win-win and I think that it's changed my life and it can change the listeners' lives.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure and I look forward to following your journey. Yeah, I'm on this ride with you.
Speaker 1:we're on this ride, get on the human connection bus everyone.
