Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
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Rediscovering Connection with Shelley Doyle
#30 - Eben Pingree - Innovative App to Connect Children and Grandparents
Eben Pingree is the CEO and co-founder of Kinsome, an innovative app designed to connect children and their grandparents, no matter the distance.
Inspired by his own family's struggles with Alzheimer's, Eben reveals how Kinsome facilitates audio interactions to help grandparents get to know their grandchildren - and vice versa.
This episode is ideal for parents of 6 - 11 year old's, who live away from their grandparents, and want them to build a relationship.
About Eben Pingree:
Eben has founded several companies in the Consumer Social space, while also serving in Product leadership roles at several successful tech startups in the Boston area. He lives in downtown Boston with his wife and three young children in the same building as his parents and his younger brother's family. This intergenerational compound serves as a major source of inspiration for his vision for Kinsome.
Find Eben Pingree on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eben-pingree-1711647/
Website http://www.kinsome.com/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100092012386435
https://www.instagram.com/be_kinsome/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/bekinsome/posts/?feedView=all
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I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.
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Love & sparkles,
✨Shelley
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Hi, I'm Shelley Doyle, a Social Wealth Strategist and Connection Coach. I empower remote and nomadic founders and leaders who crave deeper connections to activate their social wealth, so they can feel trusted, supported, and truly connected—both online and offline—no matter where they are.
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And I think what people don't forget, because you think grandparents and grandkids they're the same blood. Of course they love each other. They still don't know each other. If your kids are born on one continent and the grandparents are on another, they might inherently love each other, but they haven't built a bond, and I think just throwing them on a FaceTime call once a week or once a month is not enough to kind of build the foundation. You need to really connect in that way, and so our goal by no means do we think like this asynchronous platform is the answer in and of itself. We think it's kind of the missing piece, so that over time they will look forward to getting on the FaceTime call and they'll have things to talk about and it won't be this kind of awkward forced situation where you're bribing the kids to sit still for five minutes and typically a pretty unfulfilling experience for the grandparents too, because the kids are running around and want to be doing something else.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection. I am Shelley Doyle and I'm here today with the founder and CEO of a revolutionary new app that is designed to connect grandchildren with their grandparents, near or far. The app is called Kinsome, which I have been trialing for the last couple of days with my daughter, and the co-founder is Eben Pingree. I'm super excited to welcome Eben here from Boston today. Welcome, welcome. Nice to see you here, eben. Thank you for making the time.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'm excited to chat and thank you for playing with the product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my pleasure. I'm actually a prime candidate for this app, given that we are living on the Pacific coast, on Vancouver Island, with my two children here, who are five, coming on, six and eight years old, and all of my children's grandparents are based in the UK. So of course, there's the odd kind of telephone call and my son works OK if he has the headphones on his head. Then he can kind of go into a bit of a natural conversation. But time zones really impact the communication that they have with their grandparents and honestly, it's like I've been looking for something that can help them to connect more, whilst also being somewhat nervous about technology, and I know like some of my daughter's friends are already on like a Facebook messenger for kids, which I don't have any desire to introduce my daughter to at all.
Speaker 2:Um, I haven't read his books yet, but I'm very aware of Jonathan Haidt. Um, and just talking about you know how social media for kids, like, really changes their, changes the way that they're thinking, the relationships with friends and just keeps things on their mind. So I'm kind of nervously coming onto this platform and I'm just a couple of days in, so let's just go back a few steps and maybe talk about your why, like why, why did you feel really passionate about this? And you say you're a co-founder, so there's obviously something you've got somebody else on board with you. So let's just talk a bit through, like your why and and how you've got to where you are right now absolutely, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, the the kind of initial inspiration for Kinsome came, uh, with some sadness. About 18 months ago my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's um, and actually my father-in-law got the same diagnosis almost I think it was the same week and so among the many reactions that my wife and I had, one of them was just this huge spike in urgency around. You know, how can we be as deliberate as possible in making sure our kids built these strong bonds with them? You know, what could we be doing? How can we create and capture as many memories as possible? And we actually have two very different perspectives on it because, on the one hand, I live in the same building as my parents here in Boston, so you wouldn't think that I would be the one starting a company focused on this. But it's actually been a huge inspiration for our vision to watch just how closely my kids have bonded with my parents.
Speaker 1:My younger brother actually lives in the apartment below me. He has three more kids, so there's there's six kids between the two of us under the same roof as my parents, and I just think it's incredibly healthy to see my kids have two additional adults who are giving them kind of constant love and attention and then, frankly, from a less distracted point in their life as much as I wish my wife and I were not as distracted. It's a crazy time. So I think it's amazing for my kids, for my parents, to have six kids. Just, you know, keeping them on their toes mentally and physically I think is great for them they wake up with. They talk all the time about how, when they wake up in the morning, their grandkids are a huge, you know, sense of purpose for them.
Speaker 1:And then for my wife and I, we're just trying to survive each day right now with little kids and in the middle of our careers and starting to have to take care of our parents a lot more, and so having them kind of helping each other in their own ways is a huge relief, and so I've just become a huge believer in what, how powerful it can be. But obviously, for most families, I think your situation is more the norm than mine these days by a long shot. So as we thought about how, how could we bring some of this magic to my in-laws, who don't live as close, we were just really underwhelmed with the technology that was out there for some of the reasons you mentioned and just didn't see anything that was really, you know, tailor made for this use case. And it is very different to build a bond across people who are 50 years apart in age and have totally different social contexts and all these different things.
Speaker 2:Um, we saw an opportunity to to build something that was really laser focused on that beautiful and, just through trialing it for the last couple of days, the kind of questions that the robots, the AI assistant, asks the child, maybe the questions that grandparents wouldn't necessarily know to ask because they're not necessarily seeing children. It's designed for ages like six to 11. So very specific, a young demographic, so it's really kind of on their wavelength and asking the kind of questions that is actually evoking more than just a yes, no response, actually finding out a bit more about the character of the child. Has that been intentional?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you know, a big part of our thesis is that you know, parents, if they had unlimited time, have the ability to facilitate this type of bonding with today's technology. But it takes a ton of work and time zones, like you mentioned. All these different things make it so much harder for a parent not only for the kid to be on the phone with the grandparent but for the parent to be there asking kids more detailed questions so they don't just give the one word answers. And for most people, despite their best intentions, for busy parents, that it's just one of the things that can fall by the wayside. And so we wanted to kind of take this off parents' plates. But we knew there still had to be this facilitation layer.
Speaker 1:Most eight-year-olds aren't just going to jump on a Zoom call like we're on with their 80-year-old grandfather and you know gab for hours. It's just not the way it works. So we wanted there to be something in the middle that could kind of tease out from the kid what they've been doing and you know what, whether it's activities, who their friends are, and ask these follow-up questions so that we can share more context with the grandparents. But over time, as grandparents kind of get more into the day-to-day loop. Their questions, their responses get more interwoven into the experience. So the, the kind of intermediary, can kind of take a step back and let the, the bond, build one-to-one beautiful and that's it.
Speaker 2:So I have sat with my daughter the last couple of days to help kind of guide her through it. But the idea would be that, you know, come home from school and maybe, rather than watching half an hour of telly, I can trust her with my phone, knowing that she's going on to an app that's like kind of a safe place. One of the other nice things about it and I I have experienced in some other games, like we use prodigy for, like maths and english games there's a cut off, so it's not just like netflix.
Speaker 1:You can roll through next episode, next episode, it's like one update a day and you have that conversation and then that's that's sealed, and then next day you have an opportunity to go into another yeah, we're trying to kind of build this routine of of kind of these quick shares and and the goal is to to give grandparents this kind of window into the day-to-day life, but certainly not trying to build something that's addictive in any way for kids or you know, something that they're going to spend endless time on.
Speaker 1:But we do think that even kind of in a single player mode, so to speak, we can kind of continue to kind of interweave a curriculum so that we're teaching them about why it's healthy to kind of reflect on their day and, you know, weave in moments where they can find things they were grateful for or learn about their family history and why that's important and can kind of ground them better in this world. So, yeah, we're trying to kind of strike the balance of making it fun and engaging and interesting enough, but we don't don't want kids kind of staring at this endlessly.
Speaker 2:What's coming to me is just the idea of asking better questions. Like I have two half brothers who are 10 years younger, like eight and 10 years younger than me, so we used to travel across to New Zealand from when I was say 12 and asking questions, um, asking questions to them like how was school, and they'd be like fine oh yeah, and that was it. And you're like, oh, you had six hours there, was it?
Speaker 1:that's it. Yeah, what happened nothing? Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Asking the kind of evocative questions like what surprising thing happened at school today?
Speaker 1:ask something actually triggers a memory and it also is is something that that gets better over time. So Kinsey, this, this robot character in the app, is actually learning from each conversation and remembering things that the kid tells them. So like, for instance, last week was my five-year-old daughter's first day of kindergarten, and Kinsey remembered that she'd said a couple days earlier that, you know, monday was her first day, and so Kinsey's asking very specific questions that are based in things that Thayer has told her, and I think it allows them to open up a lot more.
Speaker 2:And it's obviously a big introduction to children, to AI, which again I'm slightly nervous about, which again I'm slightly nervous about, but so far it's felt good. Like, alba said that she had created a story and Kenzie asked her oh okay, have you named any of the characters in your story? So she had two cats. She'd named one of them and said have you got any ideas for the other name? And Alba said no, can you give me some ideas? And then she gave her like three name ideas, of which Alba said no, can you give me some ideas? And then she gave her like three name ideas, of which Alba chose one.
Speaker 2:And then this morning she said um, so how is your new book going? Have you have you thought of any adventures? For? And she remembered the name that Alba had given and then, and the new and the new name, so it's um, whiskers was a new one, original one. Oh, violet was alba's one. And I was like no, um, could you think some ideas for, like for the story? So she gave her a couple of scenarios and I was like oh, yeah, I like this one. So I guess after school today she might be encouraged to then start making this.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's it's not only communicating for grandparents, it is, it's definitely more.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know what you're creating here, eben, but it's, it's, it's something yeah, it's, you know we've, I think for kids they don't, hopefully don't think about it in terms of of AI, I think through TV and video games for't think about it in terms of AI, I think through TV and video games, for better or worse, they kind of see this robot character and don't think about what's happening behind it. Obviously, that puts more responsibility on our plate to make sure that we put the right safeguards and prompts in place for Kinsey to kind of steer the conversation, and that's something that we've invested a lot of time and energy into and will continue to make it a top priority.
Speaker 2:And so is it. Your partner is your co-founder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my co-founder, mike, comes from a software engineering background, so he's built everything, or a lot of the product to date and and how big is your team currently?
Speaker 1:we are small, small but mighty. We are just kind of getting going here. So there's five of us um working on it, mostly on the product and engineering side. Um brianne baker is our head of design. She's spent about 15 years building kids games and kids media apps, so she really filled a gap in our team's expertise in terms of designing for that audience. And then the other folks besides myself are on the engineering side as well.
Speaker 2:And then in terms of your customer base, it's very new right.
Speaker 1:Very, very new. Yeah, we're just coming out of the gates here wow, amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm really, I'm really hesitantly excited about this. I haven't introduced my son to it yet and maybe I'll just have my daughter on it for a couple of weeks and just help her to get really established, yeah, and then introduce my son. I said it's his birthday in a couple of weeks, so then he'll be the target demographic. Yeah, love it.
Speaker 1:I love it my five-year-old has been. She's been having fun with it. When she was a little younger, there was some kind of like speech recognition. We should mention this is audio first. So it's you know kids are talking and Kinsey's talking back to them and younger kids uh. There. There can be some kind of speech recognition issues as their kind of uh voices are still developing and whatnot but then the words do also come up.
Speaker 2:So so, it's maybe also helping with reading.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's transcribes for them as well, which is also important on the grandparent side as well. They can read along and but they they also can hear their grandkids voice, which we thought was was really important, and that's something that we. We've gone back and forth a lot on what the kind of right primary medium is, and voice felt like the right balance between being a lot more personal than than just text, but not quite as, I guess, invasive as as video, especially for grandparents. Sending responses to have to take a video of yourself is a much bigger step than just recording a voice message in return. So we're starting with audio as the kind of default, but there will be plenty of opportunities to incorporate video. We already have different activities that kids can do that incorporate taking pictures, selfie, selfie pictures to send to grandparents. So there'll be other mediums as well.
Speaker 2:There's a few things that's coming up for me. One is kind of the exclusivity. Like we've all got lots of WhatsApp groups going on and you know a lot of the time you'll send an update from your family and you'll send it to a whole family whatsapp group and I guess maybe sometimes grandparents do want to feel um, nurtured and like they've got an exclusive insight into their grandchildren's lives that isn't broadcast to the wider family network. Has that been a consideration in the development of it? The exclusivity, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I think you're you're touching on a couple things that we've thought a lot on. I mean one, it's exclusive but it's also at least across the grandparent level. We want to build it in a way that kids, when they're doing these initial updates what we call daily shares that those can be broadcast to the grandparents. Not more broadly than that, when they listen, if they want to respond to him, those go one-to-one, directly to him and if the conversation goes from there, he's just communicating directly with that grandparent. So we wanted to kind of balance. We didn't think the kid would want to give the same update to four times in a row, so we wanted to have kind of give him that podium to share that, the quick update. But then the conversations, uh, are very private, one-to-one after that. And similarly, we're kind of just starting to roll out these, this suite of games and activities.
Speaker 2:The first one is this factor, factor fibbing game, um, and those will be played one-to-one from the the grandkid to the grandparent and will be another way to kind of deepen that one-to-one relationship and we have pushed the brief a little bit because I have a sister and my partner has a sister, so we have added aunties to ours and I've already had feedback from one of them to say it's really appreciated and she has a son a similar age.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, so I've sent her the app because she didn't realize as a recipient, so as a recipient, as a grandparent, they don't need to download an app, they will literally just receive a message, so as though that it's just a text message. So I haven't seen it on the other side, but she she did say oh yeah, maybe this could even go through an app. So I was like, actually it is an app on the child's side, but that's not necessarily known on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for the, at least to start. We wanted to really prioritize simplicity on the, the grandparent side, and we didn't want them to have to download an app. Didn't want them to have to download an app, didn't want them to have to create and remember a password, while still keeping it very secure. So we're using what are called magic links, which get either emailed or texted. You, as the parent, pick which channel is is more familiar for the grandparent, or you can do it per grandparent and then, with each update the kid does, they can just click that link and be brought right into a web experience where they're hearing their grandkids voice and can partake in the activities. If they want to send a response, there's a pretty quick web-based flow where they create their account, but then from then on it's all based on these web links that we're sending.
Speaker 2:And do you think there will be a build later on where they would have the app on the other side, or an option to have the app on the other side?
Speaker 1:I think, absolutely the option to have it. I think we'll build a more feature experience that for people who want and can kind of handle more, a more complex product, that they'll be able to use that. But again, we wanted to start with simplicity as the primary goal there and plan to kind of expand it over time. It's nice right now because they're really two very separate products right now and so when we're doing user testing and user research we can really separate those efforts and build for the best interests of that persona group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, really good. Something that you said early on in our conversation was that there wasn't a satisfactory solution out there for this and maybe, just thinking beyond the grandparent grandchild relationship, like in your personal life, do you feel like there's satisfactory communication platforms that you're using right now, that you actually go on, you spend time um interacting with friends or family, that you feel like nourished after being on there, rather than the kind of doom scrolling that we can get into the habit of on other platforms?
Speaker 1:I I think for me, some of these, these platforms like I love jumping on a FaceTime call, for example, or it's usually one-to-one for me, and video or phone is great, but I think the caveat is that it's always for me, with people that I've built the relationship with, usually in person, actually almost exclusively in person, and then video or phone or text is a great way to kind of maintain that.
Speaker 1:And I think what people don't forget, because you think grandparents and grandkids they're the same blood, like of course they love each other they still don't know each other, like if you, if your kids are born on one continent and the grandparents are on another, they might inherently love each other, but they they haven't built a bond and and I think just throwing them on a FaceTime call uh, you know, once a week or once a month is is not enough to kind of build the foundation. You need to really kind of connect in that way. And so our goal, by no means do we think like this asynchronous platform is the answer in and of itself. We think it's kind of the missing piece, so that over time they will look forward to getting on the FaceTime call and they'll have things to talk about and it won't be this kind of awkward forced situation where you're bribing the kids to sit still for five minutes and typically a pretty unfulfilling experience for the grandparents too, because the kids are running around and want to be doing something else yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that I recently filmed a podcast with a guy named Seth Kaplan, um and his his word for it was embodied relationships and he in his um. His theory was that we can't have, we can't have real community in a virtual space if they're not embodied relationships. My only pushback on this is podcasting, because I have gone on to build some really nourishing connection through podcasting and sometimes I'll have met somebody through a virtual community that I've been part of for a few months, so I've kind of got to know them a little bit and then we podcast together and then like all of the posts that they I then see of them, like I just feel this deeper sense of connection that I didn't have previously. So there does seem to be some kind of magic in this podcasting format that I haven't put my finger on what that is yet, but I guess it's just the. You have these like deep conversations. You go maybe just an extra layer that you wouldn't typically go if we just went and had like a virtual catch-up yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that that makes a lot of sense. Just the the kind of forced structure of it and and the fact that we are the specific subjects we're covering, I think, probably play a role as well because I'm asking you about questions that you really care about, you've thought about and you actually want to be talking about too right, yeah, I love.
Speaker 2:I love what you were saying then about, um, getting to know. Like through the process of these little messages, then the grandparents are actually getting to know the child. So then if they do, then come on to a live call together. They've got those, uh, points of reference and in my mind, this is how we should all be using social media. So, rather than just like going on it all the time listening to the algorithm, it's like if you and I were going to be going for a catch-up and we haven't seen each other for a year why not go back to each other's social media before the call, see what each other's been posting about and then, once we jump on that call, we've got those points of reference yeah, and it leads to a more fulfilling call and conversation, absolutely that's how we need to be using social media yeah, that makes makes all the sense in the world and yeah, that that's, that's how we're we're thinking about it.
Speaker 1:I'd say we take it a step further because of the especially on the kid side, because, you know, kids are still developing conversational skills and so that's another angle where we're trying to, you know, teach them a little bit about. Yes, grandparents typically want to hear anything that they have to say, but we also want them to learn about their grandparents, and so this is actually a feature that is not live yet but will be in the next couple of weeks where we take what the kid talked about during a given update and we suggest questions for them to ask their grandparents, based on the specific subject matter. So, I don't know, my, my son was in a play and he talks about that in his update. At the end of that, kinsey will say you know, here are some questions that you could ask your grandparents about. You know, were they in a play when they were a kid? Can you tell that story?
Speaker 1:And so we're trying to teach kids that it's not all about you, like you should be. You know, were they in a play when they were a kid? Can you tell that story? And so we're trying to teach kids that it's not all about you, like you should be, you know, learning more or asking other people questions, and the byproduct of that, hopefully, is that then grandparents are starting to, you know, get these great. Most of them are focused on grandparents younger lives, so you're kind of hearing family history and that's all being captured for the family's sake, which is, I think, a big part of our future vision for the platform as well.
Speaker 2:Love that. I love that so much. I remember a few years ago we found these books that you could give to your parents and it was asking them questions like that about their, about their childhood, about their dreams, about when we were born. So my partner and I both gave a copy of those books to our mothers. Um, my mother-in-law since passed, um, she did, she did fill out some of that and gave it to my partner before she passed. So, oh, my goodness, that sounds like such a beautiful evolution of the app and for me, like I will enjoy listening back to whatever responses come from my mom and the other family members.
Speaker 1:That's what we've seen, so we've been testing this feature in beta. I think the kids are generally interested superficially, but it's the parents who are hearing these amazing stories, um, about their, their own parents that are really, uh, the ones who cherish them in the moment. We think kids will grow up to cherish them and they'll have them recorded in their grandparents voices, but in the moment it's, it's the parents who love them and and there's definitely a thing about the audio.
Speaker 2:Um, like my grandfather, bill was an author um self-published a couple of books about his childhood and he was such a phenomenal storyteller and it was only after he passed, a couple of years ago, that I kicked myself that I never recorded him telling one of his lengthy stories.
Speaker 1:I mean, if I just go into a quiet space and close my eyes, I can still hear him you know, he's still alive in my life, and thankfully, but what a gift to be inviting this to to start happening now, so they'll be building up this treasure trove of audios from from their grandparents yeah, and and both sides, I think there's you've got kids telling stories about their day-to-days and and maybe not every one of them, I mean, everyone's a treasure in its way, but there's going to be certain stories that probably kind of bubble up over time and the idea is that we can be collecting these on both sides.
Speaker 1:And then another application of AI is how we kind of organize that family treasure memory bank into a way that it can be tapped into in the future memory bank, into a way that it can be tapped into in the future and we can bring back the right memories to the family at the right time to kind of re-spark those conversations yeah, I'm just thinking about like the old um photo books that you used to create is going into something like this hey, like it's a kind of highlights.
Speaker 2:But you want something um going from the digital to the physical, I think.
Speaker 1:I think the real power in these memories is their ability to bring people back together. So you know, we don't just want to send it to individuals, we want to send them to people in a way that they can reconnect.
Speaker 2:So it's, you know, you can, in 10 years you'll get one and reconnect with your sister or something, and we can make that not reconnect but like use that as a, as an excuse to to have a connection point um something I'm kind of seeing is if you had something printed out, just brainstorming with you here, um, some kind of like year in review, and then augmented reality could put the photo over the image and that will turn into the audio that was shared, something like that yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it absolutely yeah, well, let me know if you want to invite me into your next brainstorming please, please, tell your kids to to send their their ideas too.
Speaker 1:We're yeah we want creating everyone's feedback and and ideas, um, but I do think to to your point about kind of kicking yourself for not recording this.
Speaker 1:I I think that that's the vast, vast majority of people, because at the end of the day, like, as powerful as those memories are, it's a lot of work to sit down, take that time to kind of write the book or, you know, record the, the memories. But for most of us it's life's just so busy that it's one of the many things we don't get to. And so our, our hope is that, by making the primary focus of the platform this connection in the present between the generations, but as a byproduct of that, using the kids experiences to spark questions about the grandparents earlier lives, um, it's, it doesn't feel like work. You're just having a conversation with the person you know, these little kids you want to hear from more than anyone in the world, but as, in the background, we're collecting those, uh, for the family and once you have them, they're they're invaluable, uh, it's just how do you make the, the work of capturing them, uh, not feel like work beautiful.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm hugely excited about how this is going to go for you guys. You've obviously put a lot of work, blood, sweat and tears, no doubt, into the creation of this. So well done, congratulations for getting it to this stage. I'm excited to be with you on this journey, and if there is there anything that we haven't covered today that you think actually this is a really, really important point that we mustn't forget to share with parents, grandparents, children about, about this I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I think we've covered it. I I just um, just to kind of reiterate it. I think people forget that it takes many, many moments to to really really build the foundation of a strong relationship. And even when you're a family you have to kind of put in that work to build up the place for the relationship to kind of stand. And that's what we're trying to do Just give these regular touch points that on their own each one doesn't feel like a lot, but when they add up over time that's what really kind of forms this foundation and hopefully can support much stronger relationships.
Speaker 2:And just that word, eben, like relationship. I think so many people don't have relationships with extended family gosh, even pair, even parents. They haven't got those relationships. So what a beautiful, beautiful way to spark relationships forming at a really young age for the children. So then they will grow into having relationships with their grandparents as they go go on into their lives, whether that is digitally or whether it's in person, you know when proximity isn't always that easy, but then coming together once a year, like when we go back to the UK next summer, how beautiful. They've had this opportunity to really build and nurture that relationship between times absolutely yeah, and I mean we did.
Speaker 1:I guess we didn't really talk about just the historical context of, you know, 100 years ago so many more families were, if they weren't in the same house, they were in the same town, and those moments happen without much work, needing to kind of orchestrate them. You'd see your grandmother because she lived next door across the town square and you'd have so many more points to build that up. But for many reasons, people, we've become much more mobile, and which has its huge positives that people are able to, you know, follow opportunities around the world. But one drawback is families are more spread out than they've ever been, and so this relationship building doesn't happen, incidentally, like it used to. There are the rare situations like mine, where my kids literally can't avoid my parents, but for most people you have to be more deliberate, and I think that's where we're trying to kind of fill this gap.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm wishing you all the luck in the world and, yeah, really excited for this Ibn. So thank you for bringing this to market and I'll be watching closely the evolution.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. We really appreciate the support and keep the feedback coming.
