#37 - Brett Macdonald - The Power of Improv in Building Connections

Welcome to "Rediscovering Connection," where we explore the power of play and improvisation with Brett Macdonald, a former teacher turned improv expert. In this 40-minute journey, we delve into how improv can reshape organizational culture, enhance team collaboration, and foster deep personal connections.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Brett Macdonald and her work in improv.
05:00 - Brett's journey from teaching to improv facilitation.
10:00 - The impact of expatriate experiences on personal and professional growth.
15:00 - How improv builds instant connections through vulnerability and trust.
20:00 - The role of shared experiences in workplace culture.
25:00 - Personal mission to bring joy into daily life.
30:00 - The nuances of building trust in various work environments.
35:00 - Brett's vision for the future and how she's evolving her offerings.

Key Topics:

• Expatriate Insights on Connection
• Improv for Trust & Camaraderie
• Vulnerability & Honesty in Leadership
• Trust Strategies in Hybrid Work
• Self-Compassion & Personal Joy

Guest Bio:
Brett Macdonald helps community-minded organizations build connection and reignite collaboration on their teams. Through laughter and the power of play, her engaging workshops offer an opportunity to shape – or reshape – essential business skills, camaraderie, and culture. She lives, learns, and plays in Victoria, BC.

Whether you're a leader seeking to nurture a more connected and healthier team, or an individual looking to enrich your personal relationships, this episode is made for you.

Website: brettmacdonald.ca/
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/brett-mac/

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#33 - Jaqueline Oliveira Cella - Bridging Work and Well-being: Strategies for the Modern Workforce https://youtu.be/GXo6ZV-Jg2I?si=kDR6b7SaNlUl3H99
#16 - Karen Grosz - How Collaborative Art Can Connect Colleagues, School Friends & Families https://youtu.be/5P_Ny9jmy9Y?si=VoQOgSCTlMUJXWkZ
#7 - Dr. Robin Dunbar - Building Community in the Modern Workplace
https://youtu.be/OUsKHCNmfPA?si=VPGN4ABbo9hlEj6P
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I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.

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Love & sparkles,
✨Shelley

About Your Host

Hello you, I’m Shelley Doyle, founder of The Communiverse.

Through our 90-day program, The Social Wealth Roadmap, we empower remote and relocated leaders, founders, and creators build real-world social wealth—so they feel connected, trusted, and supported, both online and offline, no matter where they are in the world.

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Transcript

0:00

The more I learned and performed and went to improv festivals was just the like deep instantaneous connection you build with these peoples because it's such a vulnerable art form because you are bringing yourself to the stage, you don't have a script, you don't have a character necessarily, it's just you and the other people on stage and there has to be a really deep level of trust to be able to feel comfortable up there with them and know that you're taking care of and you're taking care of them and vice versa and so um, even within my group in Munich, we noticed how the mindset shift was, was seeping over into our workplaces and into our own personal and professional lives. Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection. I am Shelley Doyle. This is my first recording of 2025 on a full moon. And January is, I don't know about you, but it always a little bit tough for me. Um, I have siblings spread across the world and three of us have birthdays within eight days of each other. Um, and I'm never together with them. The last time we were all together. was eight years ago. So it's been a long time and I, I did catch a little bit of the Mark Zuckerberg interview with Joe Rogan at the weekend and talking about our imagined hybrid future and about us kind of having holograph versions of, of our friends and family teleporting in to play cards together. I've heard a lot of critique of his vision. People are saying that no one's asking for this, but as someone who's. quite nomadic. I move around a lot. My favorite humans aren't always near me or around me. Um, so I can't help but be a little bit excited about this idea of the future. Um, Brett McDonald is my guest today and Thankfully, she is near me. She's here in Victoria, BC. I was so thrilled to be invited to an event that Brett hosted yesterday, doing our goals and vision for 2025 with a bunch of amazing, um, brilliant, uh, professional and personal contacts from across Victoria. I came out with a beautiful vision board. Um, it was a brilliant way to spend a couple of hours on a Sunday, sipping tea and eating sushi and doing our vision board. So Brett's here with me today. She's a former teacher, improv expert, workshop facilitator, and really helping organizations, um, to bring their teams together in a more joyful way, a very different way than they've probably experienced before. Um, I've been blessed to experience Brett's work at multiple big events in Victoria, uh, TEDx, Disrupt HR. Um, all sorts. So, uh, brilliant to have you here today, Brett. Welcome. How is your Monday feeling so far? How is 2025 feeling for you so far? Thank you so much, Shelley. I'm, I'm really touched that to be here today. And I think it's so neat that we spent yesterday together as well. You know, 2025 is, I think the beginning of years are always It's, it's this like feeling of you have, you know, like, Oh, here I go. I've got to like restart everything. But, um, I'm just sort of, I'm imagining I'm on one of those little lazy rivers on my, on my little inner tube and I'm just coasting along and being like, look at that cool tree. Look at that interesting person. So it's good. Mindfully flowing into the year. I love this. something that we touched on, um, yesterday was about our international experiences. So perhaps before we delve into what you're doing today, I'd love to just get a sense of your journey to here and how kind of those expatriate experience have really shaped your path. Yeah, yeah. So I actually have been a bit of a traveler, my first, since I was a child, uh, my parents worked for a non profit organization in Canada called CUSO. And so we actually lived in Mozambique for three years when I was three to six years old. So this was, this kind of international curiosity was always ingrained in me. So after I finished training as a teacher, I ended up getting a job in Scotland. And so my first. Two years of teaching were in Scotland and from there I moved over to Berlin in Germany for a couple years and then down to Munich where I settled for seven years. So I was away for 11 years and returned back here in in 2016 which created a pivot moment for me where it was a little bit of coming home but also You know, I left as a student and I came back as an adult and so Victoria was a very different city to me. Also, it was 11 years later. So things had changed, it was also a time where I realized I didn't want to full time teach anymore. There was something else that was bubbling up inside of me to explore. So that's what I then took that time to teach part time and start exploring what it was I wanted to do. Um, Something else with my life. What else did I want to try besides teaching? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I love it. And something that's just coming up to me and we'll talk about kind of your improv work. But, um, I know in my conversation with Dr. Robin Dunbar a year and a half ago, he just mentioned about When you have something in common with someone, like if you visited the same place or if you've got a person in common, um, uh, there's something called dyadic closure and it just helps to ignite that spark. And not long after we met and we connected on LinkedIn, I noticed that you were connected with a former colleague of mine called Alex Menems, who has shifted from corporate into improv and it was like almost even though we didn't know each other very well just seeing that international connection with someone that I knew quite well from the UK definitely just helped to, uh, form that connectedness between us. Um, Yeah, so let's talk about improv and like how this has like really shifted things for you and how, how this really helps you to bring joy and connection into the lives of whoever participates in in your sessions. Yeah, so I'll say my briefly my history with improv is I grew up as a theater kid I was on stage doing musicals I actually studied theater before education, and part of it was an improv course. And. I left theater aside then and moved on to education and teaching, but when I was living in Berlin, I rediscovered improv there and took an English course in improv and it had a performance element. And that was where I was like, this, oh, this feels good. And so it led into me co founding a group in Munich and that went on. They're still going, uh, though many of us have moved on. And what I noticed the more I learned and performed and went to improv festivals was just the like deep instantaneous connection you build with these peoples because it's such a, it can't. It can be a very sort of vulnerable art form because you are bringing yourself to the stage, you don't have a script, you don't have a character necessarily, it's just you and the other people on stage and there has to be a really deep level of trust to be able to feel comfortable up there with them and know that you're taking care of and you're taking care of them and vice versa and so um, We, even within my group in Munich, we noticed how the mindset shift was, was seeping over into our workplaces and into our own personal and professional lives. So when I moved back to Canada, I, that was where the idea kind of started of like, how do I, I just want to speak. Spread this and share this with other people without the performance element. You don't need to get on stage and perform at all. I just want people to experience that joy and that connection and that like, slight vulnerability that we can all have together to deepen that connection. Even if you're not aiming for the comedy or performing, there is still such a sense of joyousness within all improv games, I find, because you're letting go, you're stretching your comfort zone, and you're having this shared experience of, like, nerves, which just leads into bubbles of laughter. Yes. So much yes to that. There's two, two things that really come up for me there, the shared experience. And I think this is so important and whether it's, I don't know if any of your delivery is actually virtual, so maybe we can touch on that, but the idea of shared experiences and especially when. Uh, when people are going back to their offices, like maybe one or two days a week, and when we're there, they're half of their colleagues aren't there because they're working from home. And it's like the importance of creating these shared experiences every so often to just help bring our teams together. And then have some, have a memory, have like a core memory to think back to how silly you allowed yourself to be in the company of your colleagues. And then maybe you'll be in a really serious meeting, but you've still got that knowing that colleague has a, like a silly side to them. And you just see a different side that, yeah, is a bit more, um, a bit different to just having a drink down the pub. Yes. Yeah, exactly. One of my recent clients right before Christmas, he said it perfectly. It was a, uh, a governmental adjacent organization and, and it was all of their staff together in the room and we worked together for two hours. And at the end of it, he said he was, you know, he was really impressed with, with just how engaged everybody was. But one comment really stood out to me, which was, You know, we laugh together. Like, it's not like we don't laugh, but he said, I haven't seen us laugh like that together in, I don't know how long. And I think that's it too. It's, we all have a good laugh every now and again, but to have those, like, uproarious, almost like tear filled laughters where people are like, my cheeks hurt from laughing. And it's. Only because they're together, they're not watching something together, they're engaging in it together, and yeah, to that shared experience, I've been doing some research into laughter and the benefits of it, and of course there's all the known benefits of your heart rate and uplifting things and everything, but there's also evidence now of This shared laughter deepening connections not shared as in watching something together, but actually sharing it together and that that itself builds trust amongst people. And I just think that's so special. And I can't wait to learn more about that too. I agree. I think it's beautiful. Love that so much. Um, one thing that you mentioned yesterday was, uh, your, your personal mission to bring joy into your own daily life. And I think that was so interesting. Just knowing your work is really helping to bring joy into the lives of your clients and participants. And. Uh, we spoke also about the idea that we teach what we need to learn. So I wonder if there's just anything coming up for you there that why you're feeling this calling to bring joy to others and like how important it is to see yourself as, as, as an other, as an important person in your life that you also want to help share laughter with others. Yeah, definitely. I think two things. One, one is something that I've been working on for a few years and researching and doing work with is the idea of self compassion. and being aware of my own needs and being okay with taking care of myself while also taking care of others. And so I think what I noticed, having really gone full bore into building my business over the last year and a half is I think I forgot to bring joy to myself. Like I bring, I love doing what I do and coming into organizations and helping other people. And then I started looking around my house and being like, there's all these puzzles I haven't done. And my guitar, I haven't been playing and that crochet project and that all these different things. And so I thought this year, and I noticed that I just noticed that in myself that I was missing those like little sparks of excitement that I get in my workshops. And I see other people get, and I thought, what about. I need to feel that too, because if I feel that, that's just going to benefit my workshop participants even more as well. Um, and it's a journey. We talked about that yesterday, that we are, I'm doing it because I love helping other people come to these realizations, but I also love Coming to these realizations myself and learning as I go too, so, yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent, um, yeah. I'm there with you on this journey of knowing that we teach what we need to learn. And I watch back, um, just a couple of my interviews over the, over the break. And one of them I was saying like, hand on heart, like I feel connected and supported where I am right now. And it's like, on that day that I did that recording, I felt that way. And that's not to say that two weeks later I feel exactly the same way because maybe I haven't been connecting outside of my bubble as much as I want to because I have very demanding children and I, I just don't have the capacity when they're here full time to actually connect with the people that I really want to and have those nutritious conversations that you can like. Go over an hour if you feel compelled to because you've got the spaciousness. So I know I need to do more of the work in my own life. And I've got, like I said, I've got amazing contacts all around the world, but it's really carving out the time and the intention to reconnect so that we do feel connected. And some of the times I'll reconnect and I'll have these like. big realizations. And sometimes it can take a lot of energy to reconnect with people. And then you have like an amazing, um, hour together and you're like, wow, I really feel like our relationship is like back on track. And then again, another six months go by and you're like, Damn it. I like, I did the work to get us back together. And then the follow up wasn't there. So it's about how do we get regularity back into those connections, whether that's like once a year or once a quarter or whatever, and sensing that. So that's part of my work on my own personal journey to feel connected to my people around the world. So a little bit of an insight into me. Um, So we spoke about moving before. So you've lived in Scotland and in Germany, and I wonder how your, how your feeling of connectedness was in these places around the world. And I dare say like the environments, like if you're teaching in Scotland, you're like moving into like a whole community of people. So you, you, you kind of have those people naturally around you. So I wonder how your feelings of connection was in these different places around the world. Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. And it's just made me come to a realization that I had two very different experiences in Scotland versus in Germany. Um, in Scotland, I moved there with one of my good friends from here. We both graduated. She's a McLeod. I'm a McDonald. We were like, we're going to Scotland to conquer the max. And, uh, We moved to a very small town in the Scottish borders, and so there was no other international people there. We, you know, we even, I have an article still of us on the front of the local newspaper with our Canadian flag, you know, we really stood out. And we were lucky we had each other, and we loved road tripping all over Scotland, all over the UK, really. Um, but it took us a while to break into the local community. Like any small town, you need an inn. And we finally got an inn. And, uh, even though we were both working in schools, that was one way in, but it was the inn to the local, you know, the rugby people, the, the local theatre people. And we were only there for two years, but we made, you know, I still have close friends that I catch up with every time I go back. And so that was one community of really breaking into the local. And once I moved to Germany, I was working in international. So I was joining into schools that were full of expats. And so you had this instantaneous group of like 10 to 20, however many friends you want. Um, and you were working very intensely within the schools as well. And it wasn't so much about getting into the local community. Partly because of the language barrier as well. So that made it tricky, but I think in terms of connections again I think there is something to it was, you know, kind of the formative years of my life I was my into my 20s into my 30s while I lived there and I was really coming into myself and learning who I was as a person and who I wanted around me and The expat community is just so special, um, I think in many places. I think in Asia, it's even more unique. It's much more intense there. But even in Europe, to be with all these international people who just want to know other international people, you instantaneously have such neat bonds because you're so, everyone's so curious about each other and curious about how we It's just such work and what our cultural differences are and and similarities and you know, whether it was the theater groups I joined or the schools I was a part of, um, and then of course I used a lot of like meetup. com was really big back then and there was a thing called internations. I didn't know if you know that it was a professional international one and yeah. Oh, in fact, I think you're kind of active on the internations here, aren't you? A little bit. A little bit. I've been so curious because it was such a big part of a couple of years in Munich for me, but I just feel. It would be different. So to wrap it up, I'll say when I moved back to Canada, it was a real seeking of whether it was international people or people who had lived internationally. Like those were the people I wanted to connect with here because I didn't want to lose that huge part of my life, that international mindset and experience. So yeah. Yeah. And the repatriation I hear again and again is almost harder. Then the expatriate adventure because you come back and maybe your old friends and connections like they're expecting the old version of you to return and you're like, Oh, hey guys. Like, Oh no, this is the new me. Um, and, uh, maybe your wavelengths are somewhat different and the expectation of falling back into old folds maybe doesn't feel as natural as you anticipated that it might. I wonder if you've got any. Any, anything that you want to share on that, that repatriation part of your journey? Yeah, absolutely. I would say that, uh, reverse culture shock is a real thing. Um, like I said, I was gone for 11 years, and I would, Germany is a very different type of cult. Even Scotland's a lot different than living in Canada. I mean, you would know UK to Canada differences too, of course. Um, There were friends that I had left from university here who, you know, have never left and they've gotten married and had kids and, and my partner and I have chosen not to have kids. So I came back, you know, just the two of us. And I think One bonus I have is that my partner is from Germany. I met him there. He's very international as well, and he was super excited to move to Canada. And so, I had this person in my, in my house, literally, who I could talk to about the trips we did and the travels we did. And we could analyze the way that Canadians do things and laugh about moments where everyone's apologizing over the most, you know, where we are standing in line at the grocery store. And we just thought it was hilarious. You know, I think I was really lucky in that way. But, but I found it hard. There were things that I missed from Germany. And I think, of course, the biggest thing I missed were my friends. All my, all my close friends still, most of my close friends live in Europe or they've left Europe and gone back to Australia or wherever. And so there was this real longing, too, of like, how am I possibly going to make Transcribed new friends to that level again. Is that even possible? And am I okay with that? And, um, yeah. And then I think just getting used to how things are done here. It's, it's, it's a lot gentler and kind of easygoing and, you know, Germans will say it like it is. And, and, uh, there's a reason I left Germany though, too. I was ready to come back to friendly Kind of surface level bubbly people too. I, I needed to get back into that for my own mental health as well. So it was a, it's a mixed bag. It's a hard question to answer in. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's, uh, the word that's coming to mind is banter. Like in the UK, like you have banter, like you take the mickey out of each other. And it, it feels like that doesn't really happen here. Like it feels like it could be taken in the wrong way. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's part of like, I miss, I love going back to Scotland and the UK because I miss things like real banter and, and just, I feel like when I was living in Scotland, it was, I always say it was a good ease into Germany because already in Scotland, people were definitely more. up front with what they were saying and they just say things like it is and, and, but with this real like sense of humor and stuff. And then you get to Germany and they've lost the humor aspect, mostly. Um, I just said that of course, jokingly, but, uh, but it's very, you know, straightforward there. And so it was a nice ease. So I definitely miss that. I will say from Germany to Canada, Canada, there's a lot more banter here. Germans don't really banter. It's not really, in my experience, it's not a, my, my American friend and I would talk about that in Germany, how we miss that just like boom, boom, boom, that funny banter. Um, so you definitely get more of it here, but I totally see what you mean that it's nothing compared to, to the UK. What I love about the German language is some of the phrases. Um, my favorite German phrase is Kopfkino. Have you heard of this one? I can translate it to whatever. Yeah, so cinema in your mind. So if you're just going off on a tangent and someone would be like, you're having a cop kino moment right now. Like this is not happening anywhere else except for your mind. Like, oh my gosh, it's just not something that we necessarily would. So, um, my former boss was German. Um, so I had four years of working side by side, um, and learning. So learning some of these phrases to just throw into our conversations, which always brought him a little bit of joy that I would take the effort to learn a few bits and pieces in German. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we mentioned about you having connections all around the world and I know about your in person delivery. Do you, do you do much virtual and do you, do you enjoy doing like your work in a virtual environment? How is that received? Yeah, yeah, it's great. You know, it really Picked up over the pandemic. I was still building my business at that point, and there's a network out there called the Applied Improv Network, which is all people like me who are using improv and applying it in different situations, medical fields, politics, you know, all sorts of industries. They all hopped online at the beginning of the pandemic and we're like, how do we do this virtual? So I got thrown right into it there. And so, yeah, I did a fair amount of virtual during the pandemic. Um, I worked with library federations around BC actually, cause they were learning how to put their programming online and how to use zoom. And so I would do workshops for them on some of the basic tools of zoom. Uh, and then also. Some games and exercises they could use. And we talked a lot about connection before content. That was kind of the biggest theme was it's not just about getting people like a normal space, but getting people in the zoom room, we need to get them connected because you're all sitting in your own little bubbles. Um, so that was great. So I think that's still, when I do do virtual ones, which I do do every now and again, it's. I really want, I use the breakout rooms because I want people to connect and we still do it through improv games and, and getting to know each other kind of prompt questions and such, um, because I want to prove that it is possible. I know there's people who are doing it tremendously better than I am, but I want to show that even just the simplest way. You can build that connection within there. Totally. Totally. And I, I did do a one to one session with Alex Menon. Um, a couple of years ago now. And it was what I found really interesting was the invitation and ability to play with our emotions. in like a safe setting so he was like giving me a present like a pretend present through the screen and then saying like when you receive this you're going to be really unhappy like you're going to be real it's not going to be what you wanted at all and then it's like playing with like my like Maybe I'm gonna hide the unhappiness, but still, like, feel it. And that's it. You, you, you do, you feel the emotions. So that, I, I found, I'm like, I want to find some way to do kind of authentic improv. And it was like, well, this kind of is because we're authentically feeling the feelings. Even though it's a curated. fictional scenario that's being presented to us. So I found that so intriguing. So I want to do some more improv for sure, for sure. And I want to say, can I jump in and say one thing? Cause I want to clarify, cause I love what you said about doing that. Now I've forgotten the word you use, but that sort of authentic improv. And this is something I really try to explain to people right off the bat. Because I think a lot of people, especially North Americans, only know improv as, like, the show Whose Line Is It Anyway. Yes. Which is all, I mean, those guys are unbelievable, they're so talented, they've been doing it for decades, and, and, uh It's a very curated, performative, comedy focused format. And so I think a lot of people think of improv as improv comedy, and many people call it improv comedy, and that it's all about the laugh and the joke and so on. And I wanna, I always try to let people know there's a whole other side of improv, which still has a layer of comedy, because it's, all, you know, discovered on the spot and spontaneous. So you're gonna have comedy in it, but it is genre focused. It is truthful. It can make you cry. It can make you feel scared. It can, it can make you feel all the other emotions beyond just a laugh. And what it's really about is hitting on, relatability where you're watching something and you're like that, wow. I know exactly what that feels like and what, whatever emotion it brings up. And that's the world of improv that I love to live in. That's, I call it narrative improv, that's not the technical name, but it's more about the stories and the relationships and the people that are in there and what's happening. And the exercises to get to that place are similar as to the comedy place, but there's a different intention there where it's a real, it's a human sense. One of my favorite tools when I'm performing improv is if I don't know what to say, I just state what I'm feeling in that moment, like I might actually just say, I don't know what to say. And that's a gift to my partner because they're going to be like, one, I know Brett, the improviser is feeling lost. And two, I'm going to use that as my gift for my next line. So yeah, I love what you just said. Um, cause that is a huge part of improv. And I think yeah. Many, if not most people don't understand that or know that yet. And that's bringing up something quite profound for me. One of my earliest podcast interviews is with a brilliant coach called Kirsten Barfoot. And she does, in her coaching work, when she was starting out, she had an experience with a client and She didn't know what to say after her client had revealed something and she spoke that she just said, I don't know what to say. And that honesty in her saying that created an aha moment for her client. So it's like us being truthful. We don't know what to say in this moment or how I'm feeling in this moment helps others have breakthroughs. Yeah, yeah, it takes away that, that need to be forced to say something or like scramble for something, whether it's a moment of silence or it's a moment of, I don't know what to say. And I, and I feel like this podcast journey is helping with that because we give each other grace. Like if we don't know what to say, you know, I might just pause and edit something out later. But in the boardroom where I come from a very corporate environment, if I didn't know what to say, I probably would have just continued talking. So it's like, I'm, I've learned this over the last few years and what a gift that is. Wow, so thank you for that huge, huge reminder and I really hope that helps other people to realise that when they don't know what to say, it's okay to say that. And we spoke a bit about trust before and I think that, that is a huge trust builder. To be honest, um, and trust is something that's coming up in my research again and again, um, and I'm, at the moment my, my research is all about hybrid, hybrid working and in connection and like building trust when it is mainly through a screen and how challenging that can be and how we do need some, you know, face to face interaction to, to build that trust and how different organizations are playing around with that. I wonder if there's anything else on trust that we could dig into. I think what you just said, I really liked was the different ways of building trust. I imagine it's scary to be in a leadership role and see a breakdown of trust and be like, what do I do? And easily just pick those go to kind of activities. Um, but to really sit down and find out like what's what's the reason what's happening here? What are other ways that we can try and rebuild trust in here? And, and I definitely don't think I'm the answer, but I am a clue. I think improv is a clue. is a seed that can be used as part of that rebuilding as well. Um, so I think, yeah, looking for different ways of building trust. And also people build trust themselves in different ways as well, too. And I think that when we're thinking about inclusivity in workplaces, it's also thinking about learning styles or Or, um, of course there's the introvert, extrovert things to keep in mind as well, but this idea that people build trust in different ways and trust looks different for everybody at the same time too. So there's not a one size fits all for, and now we all have trust. It's like, no, maybe it's a bit of a spectrum. I don't know. Like, I think it is when it comes to connections. Like I have this much trust with this person and maybe a little bit less trust with this one. I'm still building it. And, and I think it's okay to. To again, like, speak the truth on that. We're building trust in different ways here, and yeah, those are my, my rambling thoughts on trust. And like, organizations that have gone through big change programs that every organization does, uh, when that trust has eroded, like, having an icebreaker. Like the improv just to maybe the tension has just been building and building and it's like you just need to do something for you all to just break out of that and help to reset and I know when I was living at the eco village for four months. Um, it was, um. It, it got quite overwhelming sometimes, particularly in the winter when we were inside and we'd be seeing, you know, these other 15 humans three times a day, it was like, you know, can be too much. And then on a Friday, we would have these heart circles and we'd sit around and we, we would be brutally just honest about whatever's coming up for us. And it was all about don't premeditate, just allow whatever wants to be said to be said. And you go around three times and it always felt like on the Saturday after being in that. kind of trusted circle environment, there was a lightness that you then had with the other community members that we like, we know we see each other in a different way now. So it's almost like breaking that. breaking that boundary, doing something that's going to get you in a different frame. And that can really help. Monday morning, you come into the office and you're not going to keep doing improv every day, or maybe some of them will, but, but, but it's, it's kind of changed the dynamic. It's changed the tone. Yeah. It's given some new lenses too. I think it's, it's, it's just shifted that mindset. Cause we all get. You know, I think some of us more than others get set on that fixed mindset. And so it's, it's breaking that, like you said, or shifting it, just cracking it a little bit and being like, Hey, have you thought of it this way? Have you looked at it from this angle and bringing that curiosity into it too? So what's next? What's next? What's next in your world? Like what's, what's in your, in your vision board? Like what's the most exciting thing that you're working on that you're like, this is really going to shift things for me. It's going to shift things for the people that I serve. Good question. I think part of what's driving me this year is, uh, I'm continuing to evolve what it is I'm offering for my clients and how it is I'm serving the people that I'm working with. And one thing for me is now to really look back at my full time business in the past year and a half is what are people looking for? Like, what is it that these organizations and these leaders are seeking and like craving and, and what's coming out of the work I'm doing with them and being able to shift that more and bring that more into the light. So I think really focusing on, um, the wonderful people that I've worked with already and learning from them. What's out there and maybe finding new ways of helping them or finding different ways because I think improv can be used in so many different places and situations. And every time there's a new opportunity that comes, you know, have you ever like the visioning thing yesterday? I, you know, I didn't bring any improv into that really, but bringing other areas of my training and my experience in and I guess just finding I always love evolving and learning and trying new things. And so I think part of it now is a focusing, though, on the wonderful people I've worked with so far and taking that knowledge and learning and moving it out back to them or into to new people as well. And, you know, I've been part of some networking groups locally now for, it's been a full year, and so I feel like, okay, I've settled in, it's kind of like when you move to a new country, I feel like the first year you're like, what's, what is this? Oh, that's, oh, and you're always just like a step, a step behind everything, something cool happens, and you make, make a note for next year, and it's year two where you kind of settle in and you really find, you Your home and your space and your people and I think that's kind of the pro this the stage I'm in in my business with with it as a full time business now, um, is that like, okay, I know, I know what's coming. How am I really going to wear the bits I'm going to thrive in and really put my focus and my energy into as well. And we mentioned about some virtual improv groups but for those. Uh, listeners in Victoria, are there any groups that you've joined that you've really felt at home in and you're like, these are going to, you know, continue to be a fixture in my weekly or monthly diary that other people might want to check out? Yeah. I mean, I think for myself, it always, and I think for anybody, it really comes down to the people in the room and, and how the space is kind of held and, and run if it's, if it's like a free form one or if there is a teacher. So that. That's been a journey for me as I rediscover the communities in, in Victoria, but I will say, um, I always recommend Paper Street Theatre. I really love the improv they do because it is, as Dave Morris, their, their, um, founder says, it's improv that feels like theatre. And so it's all genre based theatre, and he does really interesting, unique, and it's, really, And, uh, with all those range of authentic emotions like we talked about. So definitely they do shows and workshops as well. I always think that's a great place to start, um, but it is not a comedy focused improv. So if you want to do comedy focused improv, then I would highly recommend my friend, Alexander Foreman, who does. Okay, dope. They do comedy and improv and Alex runs a series of workshops, even for kids now too. And uh, so if you're looking a bit more, if you enjoy the comedy aspect of it, she teaches a style that is much more comedy focused and they have shows every week. They have numerous shows happening at the mint downtown. So it's, uh, yeah, there was a different thing. Those are my two that I'd recommend. And are you fully focused on kind of the corporate space or do you do, do you do any stuff for, for general kind of consumers or children yourself? Oh yeah, great question. So my kind of, my side, my side hustle that I love to do out of passion is, is actually Improv for seniors. So I do it at various senior centers in town. Um, some of them are all ages, some are more senior focused like Silver Threads and sometimes I do Monterey Rec in Oak Bay. Um, I also work in some, uh, retirement communities and do workshops for them and a memory cafe which works with people living with memory loss. So there is that kind of community side. So it's a bit more focused on seniors in that sense. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I, I imagine those events would be really satisfying. Oh, they're incredible. I mean, it's generally women who come, which is interesting. You know, you imagine a room full of women who are 60, 70, 80, 90 even, and they are just, they're going back to their childhood. They are just, everything's coming up and they have so much experience and wisdom to share and they're so reflective and they love this like breaking out of their shell and, and uh, yeah, it's such a joy. I love that space as well. So. Amazing. Oh, I'm so glad to know that of you. Um, Brett, is there anything coming up for you that maybe we just haven't touched on that you think in the realm of connection, rediscovering connection, whether that's personal, professional, is there anything coming up that you just really want to share with, um, with our listeners here? I think the only thing coming up is I encourage everyone to try an improv class at some point in their life, no matter what your age is, give it a try, whether it's a drop in or a four week class or something, I just think everyone can learn something from those experiences, and it may be that you do it once and you think, well, that was interesting and I'll never do it again, but that's okay, I think it's worth, you don't have to perform, just go and experience the joy, the connection, and the, the vulnerability, the kind of stretching that comfort zone and, and the pride that you feel having done something that feels a bit scary. Uh, but you're going to come out of there feeling, feeling joyful and connected at least to, to some people in the group. So I think that's it. I encourage everyone to give it a try. I'm sold. I'm coming. Excellent. Meanwhile, I'm doing like improvised podcasting. So I've had a good, this is, this has been my warmup. Perfect. Thank you, Brett. It's been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit deeper and get to know your work. So thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me, Shelley.